173: Backlog Breakdown No Densetsu: Zeruda III (w/ Paul & Wes)

So long.

Yes, at one time speed. But welcome back to another episode of the Backlog Breakdown, a video game podcast where we seek to encourage and equip the church to engage the genre, the medium of video games wisely and responsibly. I'm one of your hosts, Nate, joined by my friend and brother in Christ, Joshua. How you doing tonight, Josh?

Hey.

Hey. Doing good, man.

And, well, we also have two very special guests, but before I introduce them, I want to say Ponsaw is ready. Gosh.

Nice, nice.

Two hours.

That's a short one then, huh? Okay.

That'S just the intro. It's, it's, it's kind of a, it's almost a full cast. Of the Poem crew, we have Paul, AKA the Techno funk boy. Hi. Wow, that's, that's like that, that, that butler ghost that we just saw in the Mike Tyson adventure thing.

It was a little Ned Flanders. Sure.

A little, little Flanders there. And then of course, we've got Wesley Ray, the hench, and dad himself.

What's up? I can't follow that, honestly. He set the tone. He made that football ready.

Awkward. But so tonight, folks, just to sort of give you a bit of a heads up, we're going to, we're going to be jumping into a link to the past, the legend, like probably the seminal legend of Zelda game in a lot of circles. I know that in some ways it's the talk is like, you know, between that and Ocarina of Time. But yeah, so we're going to be talking about that, but we have other things. So, like, we have a lot of ground to cover tonight and we, I, I don't want to be up till four in the morning because I gotta drive tomorrow. So, you know, let's kind of move this thing along. But three in the morning, guys.

Three in the morning, like, it's a.

Cut off, that's a cut of hard out. But Josh, I, I have. Well, I just want to know how it's been. It's been since I last spoke with you, my friend. How are you?

Yeah, doing pretty good. Weather's changing. It's getting cold here. Freezing temperatures. Actually, on Sunday it was, it was, it got up to almost 60 and so we like spent most of the day outside. But that's probably the last day of the year that it'll actually be that, those temperatures. So, yeah, it's pretty chilly here. Had a nice little weekend. Our town did a little Christmas event with a, with a parade and a bunch of little vendors and all kinds of bouncy. House and all that stuff down in our downtown. Downtown square over the weekend. And as a church, we had a little 20 minute segment where we were caroling, we did some Christmas carols, and I got to lead that. So that was fun. That was a good time. And yeah, so it's been. It's been a pretty good weekend. I'm feeling a little under the weather, so I might not be my regularly animated self. I don't know. I might just. I might just be super down on this game, guys. Link to the past. Although I can say a link to the past is definitely the best Zelda game that is not on our top 100 list. That's what I can say. But we'll talk about that more later when we get to it.

Spoilers. Because that's usually. I was going to ask that question, but yeah, we will get around to that at some point. But, Paul, it has been quite some time. I think the last time that I remember is when we tried to talk about Baldur's Gate 2 and all of us just felt bad, like, just.

And then y'all banned. Y'all. Y'all banned me from the show for one year.

It's.

It was like, yeah, we Seinfeld, we put you out. No exile, no podcast for you. One year, you come back.

Yeah, we. Yeah, well, actually, we meant to do. We meant to do something. We. I think we meant to do this last year.

Yeah.

And it just kind of was like. It kind of got away from us, but we are. We are getting it done now. So. But since then, how have you been, man? Like, how are things?

I had two years and I still didn't beat it. And. No, things have been great. Things have been great over here. And so, yeah, I think since last time I was here, I got a house, got some chickens.

Ooh, very exciting doing that.

Do they attack your kids?

No.

Okay. They don't, like, slash swords at them and they start pecking at him and flying around. I'm making a Legend of Zelda joke. Okay, I'm sorry.

I get it now.

That took you that long. Wow.

Yeah.

You are the oldest one here at me.

Paul's just like, I. I'm confused.

It's been 30.

What are you talking about?

It's been 32 years since I even looked at this game. Okay.

He's like, chickens have swords. What are you talking about? Slashing at my children.

The swords threw me off. Where do they get swords in the game?

I think he was talking about your children having swords and slashing.

Oh, yes, that does happen. Yes, of course.

Good.

Anyways.

Good. Keep those chickens in line. Yeah, but, Wesley, that. You know, you are the fourth man here. How have you been ostensibly. Had you on, ostensibly.

You don't know.

I mean, we know we.

Bro, You're.

You're the set. You're second on my list. Wes.

Listen, this is. This is why we don't have nice things. But it has not been, as. I was just going to say, it has not been as long. Like, we.

Significantly shorter.

Yeah, significantly shorter. Although the game that you recommended was significantly longer than the one we're going to be talking about tonight. But, you know, since you last been on. Yeah, yeah, since you were last on. How have you been, man? What's going on?

Started school. Hate my life. Working. I don't like working. You know, this. This year has been particularly rough with children. Not my own children. My own children. I come home and I'm like, oh, you are absolutely wonderful children. Basically, like angelic creatures compared to what I deal with on a daily basis. I'm just like, oh, my gosh, things are getting worse. But you know what? It's okay. I'm not gonna complain about my job. I have a job. I'm good. This is the cope talking, obviously, but it's good. It's good. Everything's fine. It's fine. House is burning down. It's fine.

Okay, we clearly need to put Legend of Zelda aside and just talk to Wes for a while.

This is my therapy session. You guys charge way less than an actual counselor.

So wait, we charge for this?

Men would literally rather talk about the Legend of Zelda for several hours than go to therapy.

Lie detected.

No lies detected. I was just thinking, like, yeah, I was thinking you were going to go a little differently there and say men would literally talk about the Legend of Zelda link to the past for several hours rather than discuss their feelings, which.

My feelings are very intricately entwined with. Link to the past. Okay, okay.

But as far as things in my neck of the woods, I am on the new route. I have been adjusting to it for a little bit now, and it is delightful. It is nice that when I have a heavy day, I am still, like, at this point in time, like, today, I was one of the first people back, and it was like. And everybody like, no, I wasn't, like, the first person back, but I was like, among, like, the first, like, ten characters back, and I was like, that, that. And I was still coming back at, like, 5, 5:30. And I was like, that beats the Pants off of like, you know, back when I was like. I was like the last dude rolling in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah. But I do have. I do have this one, like, weird phenomena where I have a street. It is like lit, literally the last street on my route. And it has basically like one whole loop. Maybe maybe 15 houses on the street total. And those 15, we'll say 20 just to play. Those 20 houses have. Get more parcels than the rest of the route. Like, wow. At the end of the day, it's like I said, like, I pulled up to the street and I still had like, I started out with 120 or whatever. I still had like 35 parcels for this street.

I'm going, what?

What? This is insane.

It's like, it's not even.

Like if I didn't have. If I didn't have those parcels, it would take me. It's 20 minutes of work. Like, with those parcels, 45. I'm like, but hey, I'm not. It won't be like this forever. It's like we're entering into peak, but it's like. But yeah, and it's not even that bad. I'm like, it's just. It's weird to me. I'm like, this is. This is weird, guys. You guys know this is weird, right? Like, you get more stuff than pretty much anywhere else in the rest of the route. But like, it's just one tiny little streak anyways. Yeah, things are good. Good on my end. So.

Nice.

Yeah, we're doing all right. But. But, Josh, I think. I think we need to have a little bit talk about the media that we've been into lately.

Oh, yeah, we do need to report on some media. Y.

Reporting on the media? Watch the movie. We binged the show.

All right, so see, last time I was here, it was.

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Well, we hadn't been corrupted by Suno at that point. Like, which one of our guests is directly responsible for that movement in the backlog breakdown?

You know, version four is out now. You can remaster that song in higher quality vocals.

Oh, nice.

With a touch of a button.

With a touch of a button. How about we just remove the vocals? I would appreciate that.

I didn't see that as an option. I was tempted, but I couldn't figure it out, so.

Well, and we'll just keep that order. Josh, since we last recorded, what have you been into? Like what? And you know, just for the sake of brevity, we're really good at that one piece. At least.

One.

One Piece.

We all talk about One Piece.

We're not talking about One Piece, the anime. But what is one piece of media that you have been into that you want to share with the fine listeners of our podcast?

All right, well, I mentioned it on the discord with you guys because I wanted to. Vent is not the proper word, but gush a little bit is that I recently rewatched an old Marvel movie with my son, trying to get him into some of the Marvel stuff, and it was Captain the First Avenger. Now, I remember when I first watched this movie, I thought it was just, okay, it's just kind of bog standard.

And you were wrong. And you were wrong.

I was very wrong. Because my goodness, rewatching it, that is a really good movie. And sure, it's got some cheesy parts here and there, but overall, I mean, one, it's just got such a good moral because it's Captain America, right? Is like, hey, you're the little guy. You're willing to protect other people. You're willing to, you know, press forward, even though, you know, persevere through difficulty is basically the whole, you know, theme of the movie. And it's. And so that's great. But then it has all kinds of other, you know, some good action in there, some fun, you know, set pieces and things like that. Even some romance. Some, like, legitimate romance without, like, over sexualizing things like. It was just a really good movie and I really enjoyed it. So really, that's all. That's all I've got to say. It was way better than I remembered it being. And I had fun watching it with my son.

Nice.

Okay. Okay, good, good. It's always nice going back to this stuff and having it be better than.

You remember it, because it doesn't always work out that way.

Yeah, no, most of the time it goes the opposite way. But, Paul, what is the one piece of non video game media that you have to unleash on our unsuspecting ears?

All right, well, okay, so it is getting near to Christmas. And so I don't know if you all know this, but Ronnie Martin, formerly of Joy Electric, has been for the last few years releasing original Christmas music every year. At least something out. And it's. It's great. He has one album of that's more artsy, experimental analog synthesis theme and, you know, variation type thing. But then. But most of them are his traditional, just great pop songs. And all that stuff's on Bandcamp. And so I've been listening to pretty much just Ronnie Martin for Last several days and just really enjoying it.

Nice.

Okay.

Yeah.

And Ronnie is like. He's a definite, like, Christmas Stan. I remember he always used to. He would always talk about, like, how much he loved, like, the. The Hallmark Christmas movie kind of like trope and genre and. Yeah, he's a. He's a bit like.

I'm.

I'll need to check that out because I. I did. I do enjoy some Ronnie Martin. Just as a general principle.

Yeah. They. Back in the Joy Electric days, he. I think he did at least one Christmas album, but it was mostly covers and his newer stuff is better. I think he's matured a lot as a songwriter and performer, and it's all original, which is just fun because he has really plugged into a good Christmas sound and is doing great stuff with it, so. Definitely stuff I recommend.

Cool. Cool.

Holy moly. According to band camp, it says that Joy Electric released 14 albums.

Oh, yeah, There were a lot.

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

Yeah, there's a lot.

Crazy. I did not realize that it's crazy.

I have a lot of Joy Electric because I love me some Ronnie Martin, but I don't. I don't think I have. I definitely don't have even half of their releases.

You don't have 14 albums?

No, I think I have five or six of them. There's. But.

Yeah, I might, you know, actually make that part of the soundtrack to our road trip here in the next couple of days and just unload some Joy Electric Christmas music. Well, Ronnie Martin Christmas music on my unsuspecting family.

Yeah. Okay.

So.

Well, and the new stuff is under Ronnie Martin, not Joy Electric.

Okay.

But if y'all are looking for it. Anybody out there, tell him. Tell him I sent you. I tweeted that I'm listening to him nonstop, and he liked it. He didn't respond, but he did like it. So Twitter fame. Yeah. No, no.

X Fame.

Hey, yeah. Oh, boy. Social media to the light. But, Wesley, one piece of non video game related media?

Well, the first is absolutely.

No, there it is. There it is.

You know, something really funny, actually. Like, I've been sitting here this entire time you guys have been talking. I'm like, have I actually done anything, like, non video game related, like, media wise, like, at all in, like, the last month? And I can't really think about it very much at all. That's kind of weird, actually. I don't really watch anything.

You did get that sick collector's edition.

I did, but I always talk about Godzilla. Oh, okay. Okay. I got something. Yeah. Okay. So it's rather appropriate considering the live action trailer came out and it looks like absolute Garbo. But the how to Train youn Dragon TV series, I'm finally getting to watch that with my children. And it is absolute delight. Just fantastic. If you don't know anything about it, it was primarily a Netflix Netflix exclusive for years. There's eight seasons. Well over 100 episodes takes place between the first movie and the second movie actually. And we just got to the area or the third season, so time skips and they're like teenagers now. And just the voice cast and the characters make that show just absolutely magical. Especially what's his name, T.J. miller, playing one of the twins. Like that guy is hilarious in everything he does. He's the only person that can make Ready Player One an actual watchable movie. Like 100%.

That character was.

Yeah. And he plays the same character. Everything he does.

Right. I wanted to say the best character was the only good character.

It's not. I don't think it's a character. I think he's just kind of doing.

That's just him.

Yeah, that's just him. He's just playing himself. Like he's like a version of Wil Wheaton. That doesn't suck.

I don't actually believe that he read the script for Ready Player One at all because everything he said made so much more sense than the movie did.

Yes, well, it's the same thing in the show because like, it feels like everything he says is completely ad libbed and they just animated around it and he's just like, oh, I'm going to do this now, guys. And they're like, are you kidding me? We got to do that now. Are you serious? Okay, let's do it. It's an absolute delight. That show is clever beyond my wildest expectations, honestly. It's a great show for kids too. Absolutely appropriate. The Viking jokes are hilarious. It's really not politically correct. I was very shocked going back to those initial seasons. Very much not. Not at all. So, you know, if you enjoy that, if you have kids, there you go. It's a good show.

I'll have to check that out.

So what you're saying is that it's actually fun.

It's fun, it's funny. It's got like good Viking lore that they built around their whole community. It's good stuff.

Okay. Short episodes.

Worried about. Because like that first movie is a masterpiece. And. And when they started expanding and I was just like, oh, please don't just, just don't. Just leave it alone. Leave it alone.

I love the TV show more than I love any of the three movies. Like, the TV show itself is.

That's cool.

Fantastic.

But to be fair, I think all the how to train you, like, how to train your dragon is obviously the best. Right? But I didn't hate two or three.

No.

Oh, no, I didn't either.

They're not as good. But there's still as far as, like, sequels go and trilogies. Like, it's not like, one of, like, the great trilogies of all time, but it's like. Actually, they're all pretty fun movies. Yeah. So great.

Well, the TV show is more of the same and even better, in my opinion, so take that as you will.

The.

The second thing is.

That's enough. Enough. Oh, stop. You. The only thing. What I'm going to bring to the table is I have been. I've had, like, a hankering for, like, kung fu. Like, I used to watch tons of kung fu movies. Tons and tons and tons. And unfortunately, like, some of the best. Kung fu is, like, stuff that I don't want to expose Byron to yet. Like, I want him to be a little older. Like, Fist of Legend is arguably the greatest kung fu movie of all time. Gently savages a dude with a belt. It's awesome. But I'm not. I don't want to encourage my son to, like, smack people yet. Like, there will come a time, like, he does enough of that on his own that I don't need to, like. Um, so I was thinking about some other stuff, and I was talking to Parker, and we were. We got on the Stephen Chow, which was like, Kung Fu Hustle, Shaolin soccer. And so I picked up Shaolin soccer on prime, just like the video. And Shaolin soccer is such a delight. It's so stupid. And I like Kung Fu Hustle, too. But, like, there's something about Chow's earlier work. Like, I think it's called the Master of Cooking or whatever. Like, the one that happened that he did before. Shaolin is also supposed to be really good, but Shaolin soccer is just, like. It's so much fun. It's. It's just so goofy and dumb and just. It makes me miss Hong Kong cinema.

Like, yep.

It. It's like, man, like, it makes me hate Communist China even more than I normally do. Because I'm like, you took this from me. This is beautiful and good. And you took this from me because you're disgusting pig people. Not. And I'm not saying all Chinese people are disgusting pig people. I'm saying they're. Winnie the Pooh leader is a disgusting pig person. Their entire political regime sucks. Well, we're not. We're not getting into China anyways.

We played. We played Shaolin soccer for the kids, and they. They just could not stop laughing. It's so well done.

And it's just so goofy. Like that part where, like, right in the beginning, I just. I couldn't help but smile. That part in the beginning when he goes up to the dumpling and he starts singing to that girl.

And then I was going to bring up. That's so good.

And then there's, like, the dance routine.

Like, it's.

Then he's like. He's like. You know, he just keeps eating the buns, and then he gives her the shoes, and it's like. It's like, oh, man, so good.

Oh.

But, yeah, go watch. Go watch some Shaolin soccer, you know, or Kung Fu Hustle. Kung Fu Hustle, frankly, isn't as good, but it's definitely more polished. But.

I had a birthday party where all we did for the party was I got all my kung fu DVDs, and we would skip to the best fight in each one and just watch the fight. The best fight. And I did grab Kung Fu Hustle for the music fight, because I think that that whole scene is just spectacular. I love it.

That's it. Kung Fu Hustle has, like, I would say better fight sequences. Like, just better fights. Because Shaolin soccer doesn't really have fights. Well, there's the one where he uses the soccer ball to basically beat those dudes. Like. Yeah, but that's not really a fight scene. Yeah, but, yeah, Shaolin soccer's a delight. Go watch it. That being said, we are a video game podcast, and so, Josh, it's. What have you been playing lately, my friend?

Well, speaking of beating people up in fight scenes and stuff like that, actually pretty much the only game that I've been playing outside of Sakuna, still continuing in that. That. Then that's been fun. I started playing Mike Tyson's Punch out funny enough, and I've never. I've never finished the game. You know, I guess that kind of goes without saying. It's. It's kind of a difficult game, but really kind of getting into it. I only have a few more fights, but I know that that's, like, you know, obviously the hardest parts of the game, but it's funny, like, as I've been playing it, you know, you. You spend some time in it and you get better, and it's so funny. It kind of reminds me of something like Dark Souls. And I get that's totally anachronistic because, like, Dark Souls is like.

You sound like a game journalist.

Hard. Right, Exactly. Exactly. Right. Exactly. When, like, when Dark Souls came out, it's like, this is NES hard, you know, and there just wasn't games like that. So I totally get that's what it's from. But it's interesting to think about how, because it is just a boss rush is basically the whole game is just fighting bosses and memorizing patterns like you do in, you know, Souls, like games or games like that. But it's also a little bit of a fighting game before fighting games were popular, you know, where they even kind of came into their own. So it's, It's. It's this fun mixture of a bunch of different things. It's frustrating, too, but once I started thinking of it in those terms of like, I'm going to. In similar terms too. Again, like a Dark Souls where, like, I just have to accept I am going to lose and I'm going to lose for a while while I memorize these patterns and I'm going to get better. Not that my character. Not that I'm going to get any progression or anything like that in the game. I have to get better at recognizing patterns and dodging and all this stuff. So. So it's been fun. I don't know if I'll actually make it, you know, all the way through the game because, yeah, Mike Tyson's a beast. But at the same time, I've also been watching videos on YouTube and apparently people can beat this game blindfolded, which is absolutely insane. But that, that's also. That has to do with kind of understanding the way the game works and kind of, you know, sort of. It's sort of like speedrunning to where you're no longer really, like, playing the game. You're playing the components of the game. I don't know if that makes any sense. But anyways, anyways, so I'm having a good time with Mike Tyson's punch out. And that's really all that I've been playing lately.

Okay.

Hey, look on the, like, on the bright side, if you do, if you do KO Tyson, you've done something that Jake Paul couldn't do.

No, that's right. That's right.

Facts. But probably what will actually happen is that Mike Tyson will KO you.

Yeah, a few times. Yeah, I'm sure.

Which is also, you know, something Jake Paul couldn't say actually happened. To him.

That's true.

But Paul, what have you been playing lately, my guy?

Oh, well, I started off my yearly playthrough of Final Fantasy 4 and. Okay. And so I just did my, my, my one level grind of the game, which is on Mount Ordeals. And so gonna be able to fly through the rest of it because I've got Cecil up to level 50, which means all the returning party members will come in in the 50s and we'll just have. We'll just have super old.

Wow.

Yeah, we'll just have Edge there at level 28 and everybody else will be 60. So. But the other thing I've been playing, you know, still. Still trudging through Final cf, but Brotato just had DLC come out. That's really good. Again, Rotato hasn't had DLC yet.

I feel like you talk about this every month. It's like, oh, I got these potatoes. Oh, I got these potatoes.

That was him going through the different sort of.

Yeah.

So, yeah, like every other week there's more potatoes.

Yeah. My goal was, it still is in the base game to get all the potatoes through Danger Level five, which they start at Danger level zero and then work their way up. And I was, you know, getting, getting closer. I had all my potatoes at Danger level four, but now we got a crop of new potatoes in. There's, I think a total of 62 of them now.

62 new potatoes?

No, no, no. Just total, total potatoes.

That's still a lot of potatoes.

That's a lot of potatoes. Yeah. And so I'm. I'm working back to get now all the achievements again to return my 100% game to a hundred percent and, and then get back on that level, on that Danger Level five grind. And it's fun. Like, I, Yeah, I've. I've sunk. Oh, what was it like 250 hours in this, according to Steam, on a $5 game. So pretty good. Pretty good.

Kind of insane to me.

I have no idea what this game is about. I've not seen.

It's not about video. It's like.

No, I mean, like how the gameplay works. I have no idea what kind of game it is.

Experience.

Is it a shooter? Is it like the Vampire Survivors that you got me on?

Yeah, I don't know.

It's.

It's close to Vampire Survivors. I, I think it's better than. I think it's the best of the genre myself, which is why I play it so much. But yeah, it's very much inspired by vampire. I actually suggested that we do brotator for this episode, but we had the better idea of doing this game, which I do think it's.

I would not be opposed to doing a brotato episode at some point in time, because that game looks absolutely fascinating to me.

It's. It's. It's just a blast. It's, you know, no plot, no dialogue. It's just wave after wave of enemies.

And you said it's only five dollars.

Yeah. The base game is like. Is. Is five. Yeah, Yeah.

I just like that. It's five bucks. Yeah. Joshua, how dare you.

Oh, goodness.

Boil them, mash them, stick them in a stew.

I hope my disappointment was audibly, like, audibly detectable.

Yeah. But you're going to continue to chip away at the game as the DLC comes through.

Sir. Come on, buddy. Come on. I shouldn't expect more, but I do hope for more. Every time we do this, I hope for more, and you never fail to problem. But, yeah, I need to just, like, abandon all expectation of good behavior. But have you been playing anything else, Paul?

No, no, not the game I was supposed to play for tonight.

I mean, to be fair, you know, you've probably beaten it a half dozen times.

Yes, I have.

So. But Wesley Ray, what have you been playing lately, my guy?

I like how we get my last name mentioned as if I'm, like, important or something. It's really great, you know, Makes me feel.

It just. It feels like last name does feel like. It's just like part of how I like in my head. It's Wesley Ray.

Yeah, I do. I do love that you changed your name to average Hinson 10.

I've been changing it every single time I get on Zencaster to something different, some different permutation. I'm glad somebody noticed. Okay, so as far as games I've been playing, well, I just finished Dragon Quest 3 the other night, and this is the updated version on the switch, the 2D HD.

Nice.

2D HD or HD 2D, however you want to say it. I don't really know. I got to say, a lot of the controversy around this game was seriously overblown because.

Wait, there was controversy around it?

Yeah, concerning, like, you know, the male and female changes, like type A, type B, everything. And, you know, they're like, well, the art's being changed and everything. And I'm like, okay. But what you see in the actual game, it's just like, okay, you choose your character, male or female, and then everything is sprites. So it's like, can you see the outfits? Not really, it's just like the illustrations surrounding like the official art for the game. The game itself, absolutely fantastic. Just as good as when I played it on the phone years ago. I mean, what can you really say? The game just as good and better, honestly. They even added a game journalist mode where you can't die. So you know, if I ever had a problem, I could just switch to that real quick and then just move on. And then that way I didn't have to like, you know, actually do too much grinding, which was kind of helpful. Not gonna lie. I abuse that. I don't care. You can judge me if you want. No worries there. Music is absolutely fantastic. Like just, oh, you can't gush enough about how good the Dragon Quest III music is. And it's clear like this is one of their best games that they have in the entire series. So it was just fun being able to play that, sharing that with my children. I got to name all my different party characters after them. And they thought that was hilarious because my daughter would be asking me each day, what level am I at now? Yeah. And then she's like, what level is Fletcher at? I'm a higher level now. Hahaha. And just being able to change the jobs and everything. They thought that was hilarious. Super fun, super endearing.

You had to tell one of them that actually you're in the coffin that we're dragging behind the party.

Yeah, that's you. You're the dead one.

They did think that was pretty hilarious. Yeah. So just finished that. It was great. Highly recommend it. Although I hear the post game is just kind of like non existent. Other than like just doing some extra strong battles. I don't really care, so. I don't really care. It was good for what I. For what, you know, it was. And then also started at metaphor refantasio, or however you pronounce it, about an hour in that game. It's great. Music sounds great. There's no dating mechanics, Paul. So it's a Persona game without dating and it takes place in a fantasy world and it's kind of cool actually. It's a cool little story actually. So there's that.

Is it 200 hours probably. Oh, now I'm out.

No, no, I don't think so. The calendar doesn't even go like the full year like a Persona game. I think it's only like a third of the year, but maybe like more like 50.

They'll give us the. They'll give us metaphor refantasio, remaster or you know.

Oh, of course. Yeah.

Yes.

Refanticized.

Yeah.

How long do beat has the main story at 65 and a half hours.

So I'll be done in 25. Okay. Easy to know. I basically cut it in half and take away a few hours.

Completionist. I mean, even completionist at 100 hours. Like, for an Atlas game, this, like, that's fairly reasonable. Like, that's actually probably the point where I was like, where I felt like completionist for Persona 3 reload should have been is probably closer to 100 hours instead of the 140 that I put into it.

Yeah. And up your first playthrough of Persona 5 around that time. So.

Yeah. Yeah. That's just your base playthrough for Persona 5.

Look, I'm willing to drop 200 hours into a game about running potatoes, but 100 hours into a game with a plot? No, thank you.

And then the final game that I've been playing, speaking of Persona, is the DLC for Persona 3 reload started that last night. I sent some very pointed messages to Josh last night and this morning, and I'm going to tell you, Nate, save your money. Did you already buy the DLC?

No. No.

Okay. Save your money. Watch it on YouTube. It's absolute garbage.

I know.

I going to do a bite size on it. It's not going to be a positive bite size unless it, like, actually gets good at some point. It's horrible. It's so bad. It's. It's awful.

Just.

Just awful. Like, I agree with Paul in the sentiment. This Persona is awful.

Like, what. What is awful about it that just.

It's just redoing, like, you know that part in Bravely Default where you have to redo things over and over and over again. You're like, I'm doing this again. I'm doing this again. Worse than that. It's that worse with nothing compelling. Like, story wise to like, bring you in. At least with Bravely Default, there was like something going on that was like kind of sinister in the background. But with this, it's kind of the same thing, but worse. Like, there's nothing compelling. I don't care what's going on at all with these characters right now. Like, it seems pointless to me. I don't know. I don't like it. I'm actually kind of upset that I spent money on it, like, legitimately. And I don't get many regrets when it comes to games and spending money because I feel like I always get my fill because I know what I like and I'm not going to Buy something I don't like. But this game just feel or this DLC just felt like a complete waste. So that's my spiel on that. We'll see how I feel when I finally finish it. Which I should be done by tomorrow, honestly, so.

Okay.

Okay, we'll see.

That's. That's interesting. Well, if things sort of. Well, we'll just, we'll look forward to the bite sized.

How about that?

As far as games that I've been into, I've been, you know, I kind of. I've been dabbling in a length of the past. I did not finish a playthrough for in time for the show but I've beaten the game I think at least once, maybe twice. But that was years ago. We'll talk a little bit more about that. Like and I, to be frank, I'm really foggy on all of it. It's just like because it's been 25, 30 years almost since I emulated it. But again I will talk a little bit more about that when we talk about baggage. So I just. I've been playing summerlink to the past and it's. The more I got into it, the more I was like, oh no. Like this is really charming. I really, I come like kicking myself for not maybe spending a little bit more time with it before we recorded. So I'm going to. I think I am just going to play through it because it's not long. It's like maybe 20 hours. So I'm going to be. And I've been enjoying it because it is a very charming game. But I've also been playing some Remnant two with the Luke's. That game is still a lot of fun. Yeah, it's just, it's. It's good. It's very, very good. It's a, it's a good co op experience. I like the loop. I think the, the shooting is pretty good. The weapons are pretty interesting. The one thing I would say is I feel like the, the armor sets in Remnant don't really have a lot of impact. They're there for like some minor resistance boosts but as a general rule they don't do anything except for like, you know. Well, I mean there's some damage resistance but it's like, I don't know. The, the armor system in original Remnant felt a lot better but the game overall is pretty good. So I've got some interesting pieces. I'm doing some multi classing now. So yeah, I like that game. I think it's a. It's a good time. I've also been playing 13 Sentinels, Aegis room and okay, that game. I'm kind of like low key obsessed with that game right now.

It's great.

Yeah. You have to get through the prologue. You have to like, you have to get through the prologue for like, and actually get into the game proper. And then it's, it becomes like delightful. And I love the way that they sort of like section off the three parts of the game. Right. So like once. And this is a Mild spoiler for 13 Sentinels if you haven't played it and you're thinking about it. But like once you get through all the prologues, right, which. And the prologues are kind of like tedious. It's not terrible. It's. It's interesting. It's kind of like they do overstay their welcome though, but they do overstay their welcome. But what ends up happening is that the game basically sort of breaks down into like there's three tiers or three pillars. There's basically like, sort of like lore where you. It just sort of everything that you've learned in the game is sort of accessible through this. And there's a couple different like columns that you can sort of switch into. And there's actually like a, basically a currency that you earn to unlock more information about different things. And then there's this, it's called. And that one I think is, is just called analysis. And then there's destruction, which is basically just like combat sequences. And the one, the one thing I would gig this game for is just like, it would be so much cooler if like the, the representations of the enemies and the mechs were visible on the map instead of that weird kind of like, it's not bad, but like, it's almost like these space invader type glyphs kind of thing on the map. And it's fine, it works, but it be a more compelling game. It'd be a more interesting game like, you know, because like, who wouldn't want to watch like mechs and Kaiju duke it out? Like, I'm just saying, like that'd be pretty awesome. I, I think they probably saved themselves a lot of money in not doing that, but it would be, it would have been way cooler if they had just done that thing. And then there's like, you do the story part of it where it's remembrance, I think is what they call that. And it's like these sort of like visual novel sequences. And I think what's also really kind of cool about the game is like, you can play this game 15, 20 minutes at a time and make meaningful progress. Like, you can do like a combat, you can do a combat sequence in 15 minutes. You know, you can play through one of the storyline sequences in like 15 minutes. Like. And that, to me, that's kind of like masterful. That little, like bite sized, like you can just sort of like dip in, play a little bit, move on. And so I really, I think it's, it's pretty, pretty rad what I've played so far. I'm really enjoying it and I'm, I'm kind of stoked to get through it. It's. It's really pretty good. It's definitely not for everybody, but it's kind of scratching me right now. Yeah, but what I did do though is metaphor had gone. You mentioned Metaphor West. It had gone on sale for like 50 bucks for the base version, which isn't great. That's not a great discount. But it is a little bit of a discount. And I have like $25 in PlayStation credit. And so I picked it up because it was like 30 bucks is about what I was.

Killer Bryce.

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's about. I mean, not as good as a.

Game that has $5 for potatoes, you know, and all that.

Yeah, yeah, no, dude, dude, there's 62 potatoes for $5.

I mean, no small fry, you can't.

You can't get that kind of deal at the grocery store, my guy. So cool your jets, pal. But so I picked that up. So where I had been at zero for the, the beat down, I'm now at positive one. And I'm okay with that. I'm. I'm also like, really mad because Apparently Star Ocean second story R was 20 bucks on Amazon within like the last week or two. And I'm like, that's a price point that I would have snapped that up at, like, so I'm kind of sad that I missed that one, but it's okay. It's not the end of the world, so I'll be all right. That being said, you guys are probably, you know, you, the listening audience, you're like, Nate brought in weird numbers. And the only way you're going to say that is if this is the first time you've ever listened to an episode of the Backlog Breakdown, which I'm like, oh, boy. Like, you should probably go back. Not all the way back, but there's just.

To episode five. Episode five, for sure.

Yep, episode five. At least to episode five.

But that's the prologue to this episode.

It really is required listening.

That is kind of like required listening. But I was referencing the backlog breakdown. If you guys don't know what that is. It's a metagame that we run all year. And basically the rules kind of encourage us to think about our purchases and play the games that we already own. You. They are the. The rule system is meant to incentivize that mindset. But if you're interested in checking that out, we have a, you know, we have a link in our discord. Or you can just reach out to me and Josh and we will send you a copy of the rule because we think it's kind of okay, it's neat and people should do it. Other things that people should check out, think about that. We think is kind of neat. And apparently both our guests think is kind of neat because they are both patrons as well as. But we have a Patreon like so many other podcasts out there, and we do want you to kind of think of it as a bit of a tip jar in the sense that if you like what we're doing here and you're looking for a way to go a little bit above and beyond, and you've done the sharing and the caring and you'd like to partner with us and sort of help us grow, that's the way to do it. But it doesn't just like. It's not just one of these, like, give us money, please kind of moments. It actually comes with perks. Each and every. Our patrons get each and every episode early and uncut. There's a video feed for our patrons that's exclusive to them. There's an exclusive podcast called the Brohang, which tends to be pretty stream of consciousness. Sometimes it's serious, sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's a blend of the two. It's a mixed bag. It's kind of like Mexican candy. It's got some complex flavors going on. Is that true, Joshua? Do you know about Mexican candy?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because it has the chamoy or the. Yeah. Stuff on the outside. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

It's spicy and sweet.

Spicy and sweet. Complex flavors going on up in here. In addition to all of that, each and every patron has the opportunity to basically help us. They can request us. They can make us play a game or talk about a topic on an episode. And the reason actually, that we're here tonight is because Paul actually, this is his patron pick. And so, yeah, that's what we're going to be talking about. Legends that I'll link to the past here in a little bit. But also I figured while we're here, Paul and Wesley both are members of the Playwell Network alongside our good buddy Porcho, the Wonder from down under. And why don't you guys just take a minute here and just sort of pitch the audience on what you do, Paul. So tell us a little bit about what the Techno funk boy is up to these days.

Well, podcast wise, been working on Dragonlance, the Thorns of War, which is an actual play D and D podcast through the world of Dragonlance. That's been a lot of fun. If you don't mind, I'll also take the opportunity. I should have an album coming out before the end of the year.

Nice.

And I do have on my Band Camp my complete collection so far on sale for 50% off for the batch of it. And so yeah, check out Techno Funk Boy on Band Camp. But yeah, I'll let everybody know on Discord when the new, new album comes out. Should be fun.

Sick. Awesome. Now what, I mean, can you tell us what the source material is or is it like just all new comps or are you doing remix? Like, because you did like all the Dragon Quest remix kind of revisit stuff.

Yeah. So this album is part of the soundtrack I did for the Dyson Dreary podcast.

Okay.

This one in particular is kind of dark and moody, but still has enough upbeat to it to kind of keep things moving, moving in it. So there's been, we, we did the Dyson Jury podcast a very long time and so I ended up doing a lot of music for it there, there's going to be one more soundtrack after this one, but each one has a little bit of a different flavor. And so this one's, this one's coming out really nice. And I was, I was a little worried about it because the last one's going to be very big, but I was a little worried about this one. But it, it's, it's coming, coming through really nicely and so I'm excited to get it, get it out.

Well and Dyson Drury, each season was, had a pretty kind of a different flavor. So that makes sense that the, the soundtracks for those seasons had different flavors.

Yeah, yeah. And if, if, if you're completely new to, to techno funk boy music, if. I'd probably point to the Wolves album, which was a couple of years ago, but it is more synthwave and quite a bit of fast paced upbeat tunes on that one. I think it's the most accessible of all of Them, but there's a. You know, I, I think they're all good. But you know, it's a lot, A lot of it is really chromatic and atmospheric and, and dark. Where the wolves is. Is. Is a bit more pop.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sweet. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

So go check that stuff out, guys. But Wesley Ray, what are you making these days?

I'm surviving at this point, so I'm making precious little. I have some ideas in the work for more Retronym episodes, which is decide.

Form podcast bite sized for us.

Yeah, potential baby too. Who knows? Like number five. Working on that Wesley Ray now. Come on, kid.

He broke Paul.

Okay, Retronym, it's a short form podcast. I've had episodes here and there. I have like probably 20 just sitting there on my hard drive. I just haven't edited them because, long story short, Spotify took over Anchor. You can't edit in the app anymore like I used to, so I have to actually do actual editing on a computer. So that's a pain in the butt. And I actually have to sit down for hours at a time. And that's not happening with my life.

The way it is really, really seriously is like, yeah, Anchor, come on.

It's really ridiculous. And yeah, there's that. But I'm almost done with Pokemon episodes, Nate. Almost done. It's nearly there for now. There's like four more. That's it. Four more.

Until the next Pokemon games.

That's not going to happen.

I thought Richard was a Pokemon podcast.

That's pretty much I had assigned it to. Well, and now you have that Pokemon tcg. Pokemon Pocket TCG game that you can mill for content. Yeah.

You really can't talk about it because it's just so perfect. There's like nothing you can say. It's amazing. It's fantastic. Flip a coin.

It's great. There's probably holes in that. There's holes in that story.

I see. That's what I'm working on. My family's out of town right now, so I'm going to work on a little bit more. And there you have it. It's fine. It's just whenever I have time. And that's quite fine with me. I have no set release schedule. I have no theme form whatever. I just do what I like to do because it's fun.

I will say though, he does what he wants.

Speaking of Paul's albums, he's kind of selling himself short here because his Final Fantasy album, I put it on one of the yoto cards for my children. And they love that card. They love listening to the Final Fantasy music. They have no idea where it's from, but they love the Final Fantasy music. Go over there and buy that album.

It's fantastic on Spotify. My version of the Prelude got picked up by some playlists that are popular. And so I go in there and the Prelude has thousands of plays. And then my latest release has two. It's like, you know what? I was. I was really proud of that album. I really like it. So I'm. I'll take it. I'll take it.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah. But, well, Paul, since this is your patron pick, I feel Joshua, that would only be appropriate to, you know, play one of his commercials or ad spots or whatever we call those things. So I don't know, like, this is about to get, like, crazy, folks, because we still have the main episode to go and it's very late. So fever dream territory, here we go. But we'll see you on the other side of this. And here's a word from.

Well, Paul, do you think that this is like a really close up shot of two small crabs? Or were those really big crabs?

How do you know they're even real?

They're imaginary crabs.

Jimbleton, please tell me we can go look for imaginary crabs. Can we?

How would you look for something that's imaginary?

Oh, that's the best thing to look for. War has come to cringe A war building for centuries as dragons and gods drift into myth and legend. This is the war that will bring an end to it all or restore what was lost for good. Dragonlance the Thorns of War is an actual playing Dungeons and Dragons podcast available everywhere in May.

Subscribe today.

In a land of shadows and light where courage reigns supreme, our heroes take a journey into Hyrule's ancient dream. From the depths of dungeons dark to the fields where fairies play they seek the triforce power to keep the evil at bay Backlog break down until we're told with link's adventures legends unfold Crew and crew with passion they cast Exploring the story of a link to the past the master sword gleams bright I'll begin in the night with every step they guide us through the legends Fight from the dark world's looming dread to the light world's hopeful cheer they delve into the memories the game they hold dear Backlog breakdown until retold with link's adventures legends unfold you and crew with passion they cast Exploring the story of a link to the backlog Breakdown a tale Retold with Link's adventures legends involved queue and crew with pass exploring the story of a link to the past the master sword gleams bright a beacon in the night with every step they guide us through the legend's fight from the dark world's looming dread to the light world's whole they delve into the memories the game they hold dear Remembering the puzzles, the lore and the quests the Piman guys dive deep Sharing what they love best With Ganon's power rising, the fate of Hyrule stands They chat about the moments, the battles and the lambs from the lush green forests to the mountains high and cold they speak of Zelda's secrets and treasures made of gold in this timeless classic they find joy and delight Sharing tales of bravery in the ancient Hylian light Backlog Breakdown a story told with link's adventures legends unfold Pyrrhium crew With passion they cast Exploring the story of a link to the backlog Breakdown a Terry told with link's adventures legends unfold Peeling crew With passion they cast Exploring the story of a link to the. So join the journey listeners as they reminisce and play for in Hyrule's land of wonder, the legend lives too. Today with the pewing guys leading let nostalgia flow fast as they break down the backlog A link to the past.

And we're back. So tonight folks, we're going to take some time and talk to you about a link to the past. And for the most part, I'm going to turn most of this over to Paul. But before I to sort of like ask the questions that he wants and sort of, because this is a patron pick and so, you know, as long as he doesn't like, just lead us into a ditch, which will make me very sad and I don't fall asleep, we'll be okay. But I did want to take. Before we got into that, I did want to talk a little bit just about our personal histories with this game.

So kind of our own personal links to.

Don't do it. No, no, no.

Right, yeah.

No, Josh, don't do that. Josh. Okay, I know you already did, but I'm just. Do not like.

Okay.

Did not like. That is a way of saying it that I would rather never be said again. But I did think it would be good to just examine our. Our baggage with this game and I'll sort of kick it off just to sort of like, kind of like lay it laid out. But growing up, I didn't have a Super Nintendo. In fact, the First Super Nintendo that I've owned, I actually got because my wife. It was my wife's Super Nintendo. And so, yeah, but I did play a lot of Super Nintendo games. I just played them via emulation because I was a. Well, I was a pirate. And that was before, like, you know. Well, that was before we knew that downloading ROMs would basically, you know, just give you a bajillion viruses. You know, this is the early days of the interwebs. And so I played a lot of Super Nintendo games, including a link to the past this way. Now I had a friend who had a Super Nintendo, and that was the first time I ever played the game was on his Super Nintendo. And I played for a little bit, but obviously, like, you know, I wasn't going to stay at his house to just play a game for 15 hours, 20 hours. That would have just been rude. So I had some experience with it, but it wasn't until I started emulating that I played the game and I played through it at least once, possibly twice. But I. And I liked it at the time. But to be honest, like, I don't think I remembered as much of it. Like, it was kind of like it was a season where I was just like, chewing through because I was like, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Terranigma. Like, anything from the Super Nintendo era, like the Shadowrun, the Super Nintendo Shadowrun game. Like, just anything I could get. Like, I played like dozens of really awful Dragon Ball Z fighting games and Gundam fighting games. Like, they were not good fighting games. They were just. Especially. And trying to play a fighting game on mouse and keyboard is not ideal. I'm just throwing that one out there. Yeah. So it's. But I remembered liking it, but not being so, like, sort of gobsmacked by it, you know, because I think, like, frankly, I was kind of being overwhelmed by, like, things like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6, you know, and Saike and Densetsu 3 and stuff like that. So I would just say, like, revisiting this. I was like, I knew I liked the game and I just didn't realize how big an impact, like how formative it really was until, like, sort of thinking about this. I was listening to some retrospective stuff and I was like, oh. There was also sorts of things being pointed out to me that was like, oh, no, that's where I got this from. So it's like, that's. That's my thing. Like, it's been 30 years since I played this thinking game and I forgot how foundational it really is. And, yeah, I've never owned it. Well, that's not true. I've since bought it digitally several times. But, yeah, nice. So that's my baggage.

Yeah.

Cool. Dirty Rotten Pirate. How about you, Josh? What's your.

There you go. Well, I have owned this game in a number of different forms throughout the years, mainly playing it as a kid. I did.

Just to clarify, I do own it legally now.

You said that you bought it digitally multiple times. Yes, and I'm. And I have as well. But I do have the physical Super Nintendo cartridge. I remember playing through that when I was a kid. It's in the basement right now. So I do have some fond memories of this game. It was not my first Zelda game. That goes to Link's Awakening. And then I want to say I played the first Zelda before this one, probably even Zelda 2 before this one. But Link's Awakening was. Was the first Zelda game, which is odd because it doesn't have Zelda. It doesn't have a lot of kind of the tropes of Zelda games, although it does heavily borrow from this one, a link to the past. So while I do have very fond memories of it, I don't recall playing it, like, very often. A lot of Super Nintendo games, you know, you. You'd kind of memorize the first few levels if you owned it, because you'd be replaying it a lot. But this one, I don't remember restarting very often, probably just because of the save the save files and stuff like that. But I have played it a number of times, even from when I was younger. So this. This playthrough, it was fun to. To reminisce on a lot of the things, because, yes, it did feel very familiar. I have a lot of the same thoughts of what you mentioned, of just how foundational that this game is for just the formula of what a Zelda game is. I recognize, you know, it's a huge step forward, especially after the first two games. So there's a number of things there. But. But I have played this, you know, since I was quite young, beating it back then. It was never like, oh, this is the. Yeah, this is the pinnacle of Zelda for me. I think that's because I played Link's Awakening first. But it's always. I've always known that it's a solid Zelda game and that. That it's very well regarded. Like, often the Internet will put this as a top Zelda game. So, yeah, yeah, that's my. That's kind of where I'm coming from.

Wesley, what's your baggage with this video game?

I mean, Basically, I'm like 95% same with Josh. Honestly, like, not my first Zelda game. Again, that goes to the superiority of Link's Awakening, and it will forever be the most superiorest Zelda game ever invented, period. So played that quite a lot on the Game Boy. Loved it. Played the first two on the Nintendo, because of course, they are the ones with the gold cartridge. Like, you want to play the gold cartridge games because those have to be better than the gray cartridge games, obviously. So you try it and then you realize you really stink because you don't have the instruction manual that actually has the map and you don't have any copies of Nintendo Power. So clearly you're not going to get very far in Zelda 1 or Zelda 2. That being said, Link to the Past, I still think to this day is probably my second favorite Zelda game. And there are times I think I might go back and forth between Link's Awakening and Link to the Past, but in the end, it's obviously going to be Awakening is going to be the top game. That being said, Link to the Past. Fantastic. I have played it. I might have played it the most out of all of us. I don't know how many times Paul has actually completed it, but it's one of those games that I would go back to, like, every couple months when I was a kid, because, you know, we would cycle through different systems, and I was one of those cool kids that would have like a Super Nintendo and a Sega Genesis and a PlayStation. You know, we were just apparently rich beyond belief. I don't know where we got any of these games, honestly, unless my parents are thieves and they still haven't told me this.

But Link to the Past, what they didn't let you know is that they were actually international jewel thieves.

Right?

Could still be the truth today. Who knows? Who knows? But, yeah, I probably beaten this game more times than I can count. And I can point back to very specific areas and how it made me feel at the time as a kid, just being able to uncover things that maybe even my brothers haven't actually beaten because they liked it. But they were never great at it, and they were never really enjoying it as much as they enjoyed their PlayStation games. But for me, it was always one of those things that I could just go hide in my room and play Super Nintendo and Link to the Past and Super Mario RPG were right there for Me and Super Mario World, of course, which is the better of the two Mario side scrolling games.

Your slander will not be tolerated here. Like you're allowed to be wrong in a lot of ways, but that slander will not.

Someday I might be wrong too, but until then I am going to be correct and remain correct in that assessment. Yeah, there's no baggage other than the fact that the Nintendo Power comic is like the best thing ever made by human hands. And Shotaro Ishinomori is an absolute legend and the fact that they got him to make a comic specifically for an American propaganda magazine is unbelievable. Unbelievable. Rest in peace.

If listeners don't know how special Nintendo Power was back in the day. It was just great for a giant advertisement that you paid for.

Yeah, it's like streaming services today.

It was like one of those things where the mag. The magazine racks, like when your mom. Like this is like a whole thing. But like Paul, when your parents would go to the grocery store and you'd have to go with them and you would just wander over to the magazine racks. If Nintendo Power was there, I was flipping straight to the back. Yeah, straight to the back. And then I just read the rest of the magazine there at the store. Yeah, because that's what kids do. But, but Paul, so this is your pick. What's your baggage? My guy.

All right, so this is one of the reasons I love this game so much. I got to set the stage a little bit because, you know, you youngins don't understand. But. So I played the first two Zeldas on Nintendo when they were new, Gold cart and everything. And the, the Super Nintendo had come out the year before this game did the first Super Nintendo games. Like it was, it was a definite graphical upgrade and feeling upgrade. But it, it wasn't so evident yet. Like you know, when they were ending the, the NES cycle, like they had gotten really good at graphics for that system. Like Mario 3 in the beginning, like Mario World, they weren't the beginning of the snes. They weren't very good at graphics. And so Mario World's graphics are kind of mediocre. When this came out in 92, just that opening sequence, everything about it, the swirling triforce, the sword coming down, the harp arpeggios going into the symbol crash. And it was just that moment alone was something that like I hadn't seen stuff like that before in, you know, in like a home video game. And it was such a, I mean just drastic upgrade from what had come before. It took the overhead view of Zelda 1, but worlds prettier, more inviting, more complex. The world itself, the individual areas were just so well thought out. The whole world so well planned that you get this Metrovania, you know, crisscrossing of the worlds as you're getting upgrades and you can get a little bit farther in each section. It was. It was just something that, you know, we. That was. That was miles ahead of what had come before. And I just absolutely fell in love with the game and played it. Played it a few times that summer. I, you know, I've probably. Yeah, I've probably beaten it like five or six times. So the average Henshin dad's probably beaten it more. But it is one of those games I absolutely love. I actually got it before Final Fantasy, what we called Final Fantasy 2 at the time, even though Final Fantasy 2 was actually at the end of 91 had come out in America. But I got Final Fantasy 2 later and that title sequence has a similar feel to it, but particularly the music. But yeah, just everything about this game just got burned into my brain, you know that every note of the music, every scene, it. It just stuck with me. So definitely, definitely my favorite Zelda game. Of all the ones that I've played, which or four of them. But what's the fourth?

What's the fourth?

Ocarina?

You haven't even played Link's Awakening.

No.

Oh, get off the show. What are you doing here?

Sorry.

Oh, my gosh. I've never been more disappointed in you than I am right now.

Well, that's how Paul and I felt about when you. About you. When you said that you never watched Firefly, so. Be careful, young man.

Very true.

Yeah. I just think, you know, sort of going back that, like, I really wish I had more of that. That kind of experience, Paul, where I wish I had sort of been like. I remember that first time, like, playing out my friends and being like, oh, this is so cool. But it wasn't like magical, you know. And it's like, I do think, like in going back to this game, I do think it is kind of like, it is oddly special like it. And it is. I think it is that just like that sort of like the late Nintendo, like late nes, just into the Super Nintendo to the late Super Nintendo Gen is like there's some real magic in that generation for sure. And I mean, I've ranted and raved about just how like, you know, I kind of. And it's. It's. It's mostly for show, but it's also like a little bit like Unhinged rant where I'm just angry about the hook shot not being in Breath of the Wild. But this. This was the game that gave us the hook shot. And I just kind of like. And for me, it's like one of the things I think we talked about is, like, just looking back at the game, I realized, like, how, like, this game defines for me. Like, I don't have, like that magical, like, oh, this. This game sort of like, I fell in love with it, but I do, like, it casts the mold for, like, this is what I expect out of a Legend of Zelda game. I expect sort of like this tiered progression where it's like you get a few tools and we add a few tools and there's a temple and you get a few tools and you know what I'm saying? And there's this constant, like, kind of like, here's a few blocks and here's a few more blocks. And here, like, that mix of like, the puzzle dungeons and every, like, Right. Masterful execution across the board. And I think the other thing is this game's basically about 20 hours to play through, and that's pretty accessible, pretty doable. And I would say even just the modern iterations, it's a really pretty looking game, even in modern, you know, modern TVs and everything. Like, you know, like, it's. It's one of the ones where, like, the pixel art doesn't suffer on. Right.

You know, even down to, like, individual flowers and blades of grass that you can actually see, like, moving, like, actively. Like, this whole world is actually moving. It's like just a beautiful painting. It's wonderful.

It's masterfully realized it. I like, the more I've been looking at it and, like, just on my switch, even, I'm like, no, this. This might be the most visually impressive SNES game flat out. Like, just everything that it does. Like, I. Yeah, it's like the little animations and just like, dude, they didn't need to animate those flowers, but they did, you know, and so it's like little touches like that, and just like, the aesthetic is gorgeous. Like, I was looking at a tree in it. Like, you know, because there's lots of trees in this game, but I was looking at one of those trees and I'm like. And granted, you see hundreds of that model. Like, you know, they just kind of repeat and reuse the asset over and over again, but it is an absolutely drop dead gorgeous. Like, I was like, this is a really beautiful sprite or series of sprites you know, depending on. But, like, it's. It's just. It's gorgeous, like, and it's just incredibly well realized.

Like, except for Link's pink hair, but everything other than that.

I'm glad you brought that up because you know what? I think, like, it was a bit of, like, Nintendo being prophetic. They just knew that in 30 years there'd be a bunch of people with pink hair. Pink hair, pink mullets that would be. And they were just like, we're just gonna. We're gonna, like, put our stamp on this. And so, you know, 30 years from now, we're gonna be like, oh, no, we did that first.

You can trust those people to be the hero of time. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

So before we jump off of graphics, I know this is a little bit into the story, but I very much consider the drawing of the master sword in this game to be one of the greatest moments in video game history. Just the running of the woodland animals in that scene. You go in and it's all foggy and the light coming out of it and clearing the fog away. It's so. Well, so well conceived, programmed. And like, I mean, I've. I finished the game five or six times. I've started the game probably something closer to 20, and I've hit that point and just. It. It moves me every single time. Yeah, it's such a great scene.

Well, and that even sets the story for, like, the. Or sets the stage for just the master sword. Like, it. 1. It introduces the master sword, but then it sort of like, sort of sets a pretty high bar that I think the only other Zelda game, frankly, in my opinion, that touches that sort of, like, gravitas is Ocarina of Time when you get the master sword. Like, that's the only.

It's interesting that you say that because it's like, completely, like, a different style and mood going along because at least in Link to the Past, you get the master sword and it feels like, oh, triumphant. Everybody's, like, super excited about it. Ocarina of Time, you get the master sword and you're just like, oh, it turned into Resident Evil really quickly.

Yeah, well, and. But there's two very. Two very different vibes. But just, I'm saying, like, you know, frankly, none of the other Zeldas, like, finding the master swords outside of Ocarina of Time really resonate. Like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I found the master sword. Like, move on.

But, like, not even Wind Waker. I thought I would say that's like, A really close second. That wind waker sequence where the whole castle wakes up basically, that was amazing.

No, no, I'm like, I just.

Master swords ready?

Master sword pulls. They're all pretty good. I just think it's like. It, it is kind of interesting. I just think it's interesting that they set the bar so high.

Yeah.

And that it is. Yeah. And it's like in some ways it's still every. I almost feel like all the other Master Sword withdrawals, like our fines or whatever are struggling to capture something comparable. And like I said, I think Ocarina time, like I just. For that it was like the transforming from Kid Link into Adult Link. I was like, yo, that's. That's pretty sick.

So you cannot see it from. Well, first of all because it's really far away. But also because I have Christmas decorations over it. But I have a portrait of Link behind me. But right on the side of the portrait I made a perler of of him listing the. The link to the past link holding the Master sword up because. Yeah, that, that's very intentional that I picked that scene because that, that had such a huge impact on me.

Yeah, it's, it's. Yeah, it's just, it's. And it's just moments like that that it's just like, man, this game is a lot stickier than I think I've given it credit for in the past.

I think of a number of different scenes and moments throughout the game that to me feel very iconic. You mentioned Paul earlier. Just the opening of the game. You pop the game in the Super Nintendo. Like it's just very. Just that opening brings back a lot of memories for me. But even the opening of once you start a file and it's raining, I mean it does go through. It goes through the history of Hyrule. It does that. That's really cool. But it's raining. You know, your, your uncle gets up and he's like, don't follow after me or you know, I'm going to go, but be careful. And then you're sneaking around the castle like that whole opening section. And like I said, it's not that I've played it 100 times, but I know I've played that opening quite a number of times.

Yeah, I've played that opening sequence probably dozens of times.

That's another point where like this is something at the time we had not really seen before.

Yeah, yeah.

And so coming out of the NES era having, you know, okay, they might have rain, but just the feel of that, of the rain in the game.

Yeah, there's thunder.

So, you know, that's rendered so nicely. It's. It was. I think they put it at the beginning of the game on purpose because they're showing off. They're like, look. Look what our new system could do. Look what we can do now.

But it works even down to, like, individual raindrops just, like, exploding on the ground. It's unbelievable. The atmosphere that it sets up is just unparalleled. Like, I haven't played a game since then. I can set that kind of atmosphere in the same way.

Yeah, yeah. And then when your uncle tells you that Princess Zelda is your. And then he passes out and you need to remember that moment because it is never brought up again. And you have no idea through the.

Game, what is it?

What he was about to say.

Yeah, yeah.

Hopefully not his sister.

Right.

Well, that would have been kind of important.

That. Yeah, that sequence is real good.

Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I think of, you know, when you first go to the Dark World also, and how jarring like that, that's really impactful in a different way because it's like you felt so strong up to that point, and the game's relatively easy up to that point. And then it feels like it's all stripped away and it feels like you're in this barren wasteland and there are these crazy, like, demonic creatures all around you. And. Yeah.

That'S a really good point because once you get the Master Sword in the Light World, there's not really anything in the Light World that can stand in your way. You're just mowing things down and it feels powerful. You feel like you're accomplished. And then Dark World, and it's like, oh, no, it's not. I mean, it's not a hard game, but it is. It. It does throw you in and makes you feel like you feel like you're level one again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially before you can even attack. You know, when you're just this little bunny.

Oh, yeah. That. That's part two. Yeah. For sure.

Yeah.

So. So I think. I think there are a number of things, which is. I think you alluded to this, Nate, where even though it's been a really long time since I've played this game, there are just moments throughout it that are kind of etched in my memory. Whether or not they're just iconic for the series in general or it's just specific to this game. I think. Yeah, there's a few different scenes throughout it that, like, yeah, it hits pretty hard and it's very memorable. So.

All right, well, nice. Well, Paul, now is, I'm going to say where do you want to go with this? Like, I'm sure that you have some things that you really want us to hit. So lead the charge, my friend.

The main thing that I love about this game and I think it's something that sets Zelda, even the NES titles apart from, you know, other, other titles developed by Nintendo directly are the bosses. You know, Mario has always had kind of crappy boss fights but great levels. Zelda's always had great boss fights. And this game, I, this, what always stands out to me about this game is I, you know, I, I like, I like nearly all the dungeons, but just the fights, the, the creativity of the boss fights. And so I did have a, I did have a list, you know, of, of the dungeons you go through. I, I guess very quickly if you're not familiar with the game and are, you know, just have no idea what the plot is. What you mentioned before, it's like you get woken up in the middle of the night, your uncle's leaving with a sword and he's like, you know, I'm going to get some cigarettes, I'll be back in the morning. He ain't coming back, buddy.

But by the way, Zelda is your.

You get, you get woken up because.

It wasn't the castle guards that got him. It was that six pack a day habit, right?

Zelda contacts you telepathically and wakes you up and tells you to go to the castle. And when you get there, you find your uncle's been stabbed and you take his sword and shield and you start, start going to rescue Zelda. If, if anybody is, has not read it, get the comic book because this whole scene is hardcore where Aghanim himself is the one who kills your uncle. And it's pretty great art. But yeah, from there you, you, you manage to rescue Zelda. You hear that? You know, you got to do some stuff around, but you got to get these four, these three pendants in order to prove yourself worthy to get the, the master sword, which is the only thing that can block Aghanims magic. As you go through those, as you get the master sword. Then Zelda is being kidnapped by Aghanim and you go to the castle to rescue her. This is very real. In 1992, there were a lot of people, even though it's kind of hinted at in the book, there were a lot of people thought this was the end of the game and it was a massive surprise when it's Just like, oh, no, we're not even halfway done, you know, because you get sent into the Dark World, where Aghanim is sending all these maidens so that you can revive this thief who has been warped by the power of the Triforce in the Dark World. Ganon, we all know.

And that's the thing is, like, honestly, if you get the medallions, you get the master sword, and you fight Aghanim. And that was the game. I think the game would. It would have felt, like, a little short, but it would have felt okay.

Yeah.

It would have been like, I'm not going to be mad about this. But the fact that, like, yeah, they do sort of just say, but wait, there's more in the best possible way is there's like, you know, that's. That was a. That was a. That's a real neat trick, you know, Right?

Like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, you go through that, you face Aghanim again, who does manage to resurrect Ganon. And, you know, you give up because there's no hope in that. And that's always where I turn off the game. It's like, I'm not facing that guy. But I. I kind of wanted to. If I just kind of quickly go through. Go through the dungeons and, you know, briefly tell about the bosses. And if y'all have any thoughts on it, please jump in, because this is the part that I really love about this game.

All I know is I love the Power Glove. It's so bad.

So bad. Yeah. The first dungeon you go to is the Eastern palace. And you pick up the bow there. And, like, you're expecting a lot of times you're going to use the weapon you find in a dungeon against the boss. And there you face the Armos Knights, who are these six bouncing giant night things that circle around the room. I thought it was a pretty. I love this as an opening boss because it's, like, super intimidating, but they're not actually very hard. And so, you know, as long as you start pelting them with arrows, they're going to fall pretty quickly. But just the. The first time you walk in there and these just six giant things are stomping at you is pretty cool.

And the sound effect that, like, pops up as soon as you hit them with the arrow, it's like that. Josh, put the clip in. Okay. It's really good. That sound effect is like. It's so good.

The sound effects in general in this game are. It's just great.

Yeah. I was gonna say the sound Design in this game, period is. I mean, and it gave. It gives us like, dude, one of the things I was listening to today said, oh like this is where that iconic da da da da. Like the, like when you open the chest you get that like little trill kind of thing. Like this is where that came from. And it's like, oh yeah. Like that's sick.

Yeah.

Well the, the original Zelda, it was the dunna. You still get that in the original one, it's lower.

But this one, this one is like the one that like this is like the real root.

Yeah, like, okay, yeah, the one that's stuck in everyone's head for sure.

Yes. This is the one that like, when you think of that sound like this is the one you think of.

Yeah, this is one. Yeah. It should be noted in all these dungeons. Again, most of the dungeons I really like, Eastern Palace I really like. But in these dungeons you find certain treasures. The map, the compass which tells you. Which is worthless because it's pretty obvious where the. The boss is every single time. But. And then the big key and then you find a big giant treasure chest which always has the real treasure of the dungeon in it. And so you're kind of hunting for these four things before even going to the boss. Every time after that you get the. You get the boots and then you can start running. Which was, you know, the first time.

Was just like amazing item in every Zelda game. Any Zelda other than the hook shot. The Pegasus boots. Love it.

They're pretty sick.

So Desert palace, you get the Power Glove and then fight Len Mola, which are three snakes and that are it in this whole. This whole dungeon is deserty and so there's a lot of monsters that go under the sand and then pop up and these three come at you and fly around the room. And so they're. I always had. Of the. Of the Light World bosses, I always had the worst time with this one and I think most people had the worst time with. With Muldrum.

But yeah, I actually just did that this fight the other day and I was like, oh, this is not fun. It's not hard. But yeah, that like in comparison to that first boss fight where it's like it's not hard but it feels like a little more impactful. Like you know you've got the six statues like stomping down at you, right? That. That feels like a little more whatever. Like this one is just like this feels kind of like just dumb and not fun. Like they're hard to hit. Yeah. It's just. Yeah. And I think it was very good.

This is my least favorite of the, of the Light Worlds for sure. Well.

And you don't do anything with the Power Glove. Like it would be one thing like if the Power Glove was more a part of that, of that fight. That fight. But it's not. So it's like I don't, I don't know.

So it's emulating the real world Power.

Grove a lot where it just doesn't lead us to the hype.

It's. It's bad.

We.

We all know this. It's.

It's so bad. Yeah.

So yeah, you head out up into the mountains, which I, I love the trek into the mountains. It. It, the. The whole trek feels weighty and dangerous. But getting over to the Tower of Hera and you find the moon pearl there, which does allow you to go into the Dark World without changing shape, which you've already experienced that you turn into a little bitty bunny. And.

Well, to get, to get to the tower you have to step into that portal.

Right? Yeah.

And then move over to a spot and you get this like you basically when you're climbing up the mountain, you find that old man. And when you get help him get through to his spot, he gives you the mirror.

Right.

To get you back. And so. Yeah.

But this is the look I watch a lot. I've watched a lot of randomizers and speed runs of this game. And Moldorm is always the Light World boss that I found the most interesting. And it seems like everyone else hates him. And so I'm curious as to Yalls reaction to this guy. He's kind of a snake like creature too. But while every other boss fight you either live or die, this one tries to just push you off the edge. And if you fall off the edge then you go down to the floor below and you have to go back up. And he's restored to full health after you come back up.

And so I hate this boss. There is nothing that drives me nuts in a video game more than feeling like I wasted time. And I'm sitting there beating this guy to death. But I take one wrong turn, he pops me right off all the way down to come all the way back up. Stupid. Hate him. Die in a fire.

All right.

Okay. That's.

Other than that, the dungeon's pretty fun. You know, it's okay.

I think he's a little annoying, but I didn't think he was. I don't like the design. Right. But I didn't Think the actual fight was that bad.

You know, he's also bouncy when you. When you actually hit him, you bounce off of him a lot. And so the. Yeah. The whole gimmick of the fight is keeping your balance on the platform, which. So he. He does like. He's. He's a little unfair at times and will get you into a corner that you cannot get out of, which is a little bit jerky, I don't think. I don't think there's much about this game that's unfair, but that point is, at least it's not a death. But. Yeah.

When you're five years old trying to play this stupid game and this boss knocks you out, this boss can go suck farts.

That is fair.

Hate him. Hate him.

Gosh.

Once you get the. Once you get the pendants from these three bosses, then you get the master sword and head to Hyrule Castle to save Zelda. The point of the game. And you finally. You finally encounter Aghanim and the wizard, who. I. I always thought this was a fun fight. You know, he. He shoots his little magic projectiles at him, but the master sword and also can reflect them back to him in case y'all are ever doing a randomizer where you don't have the master sword. You can also use the net against Aghanim, which is weird. I don't know why they programmed it like that, but. But yeah, you're trying to hit his. Hit his shots back to him. I don't think it's particularly hard fight, I think, but it's. It's pretty cool one that.

That fight. The design kind of reminds me of, like, a breakout a little bit or, like, Pong, but a little more dynamic. And I really appreciate, like, that sort of like, that whether it's intentional or unintentional, that, like, callback, you know, it's like, where it's like the. The. The fight is literally you just, like, volleying that ball of energy.

Yeah.

Until somebody. Until somebody drops it, you know, or screws it up. So. And I. There's something kind of charming about that.

So it's super fun.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It's a cool. It's a. It's a very. It's. That might be like one of my, like, just like. Because it's. It's simple in execution, but it's like. It feels really good. It's fun. It's a lot of fun.

It's a fun fight. It definitely is.

Yeah.

That. And so it's so, like, I. And this is Why I like these fights. So we've had four bosses so far. We think it's the end of the game. It's not, but, you know, these are four distinct strategies that you're going to need to employ. You know, you have to approach all four fights differently. And that's what I think. This, you know, this game does really well with the bosses. But heading over into the dark world, we have palace of Darkness. You get the hammer and you have to fight Helmussar King, which is an interesting fight because you have to break his helmet off of him first before you can access his weak point. And he has a tail that's going to whip around at you and Pretty fun.

He's the only boss that you do that with though, right? You never have to like, sort of crack something open to get to that weak spot.

Oh, you kind of need to do that with Trinax because once you kill two of his heads, then his shell will break and he comes. The middle head comes out of there. But not in the same way. It's completely different feel to it. But yeah, this is a fairly unique mechanic for it.

Yeah, that's just. That's. That's kind of a what it was like. It was like. Yeah, they, they, they. Well. And I think as a general rule, they never revisit the same thing twice. It's like each one of the boss experiences, like, there might be like, notes where it's a little similar, but it's. Each one of these boss experiences is pretty radically different. Yep.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All right. Well, my favorite dungeon and one of my favorite bosses is Swamp Palace. Not just because you get the hook shot there, but that's a big part of it. But I love hook shots rule and you face Argus in this, and it's got a cool mechanic where you have to hook shot. It's little protector eyes and pull it away. Pull them away from the. The main body and then kill them. And then once. Once Argus himself is revealed, then he'll kind of swim around the room and you have to hit him. This, this whole dungeon is. Was, was. Is fun to me. There's a lot of switches, water switches where you're flooding certain areas and draining certain areas. And then once you get the hook shot, then you're. You're bouncing on the. The upper level for back and forth from everything. So my fa. That's my favorite dungeon. I. I love hanging out there. Once you head into Skull woods, you get the fire rod and fight Mothula.

Who is totally not Mothra. Totally not Machine.

One of the two fights, one of the two boss fights I do not like. But he's, he's kind of a jerk. And you're on a moving floor and he's, he's flying around and there's spikes on the floor that keep moving back and forth at you. And it always kind of felt like I was just swinging my sword randomly around the room until I beat him, trying to just dodge things.

Mm.

Well, and it's, I wanted to take a second here. You mentioned that you get the fire rod and you can get the ice rod or the ice staff earlier, you know, significantly earlier on in the game. But like, I gotta be honest, like the staves never really rated for me as far as like weapons.

No. So the, and I'd say that about all of Link's magic in this game because you can get, you can get three, you know, magical pendants as well to cast screen wide magic. And I didn't really use them except to open things which, you know, sometimes you get to a place where it has the symbol and you, you cast that spell and it opens things up. But yeah, I, I, I tended to go, you know, sword and shield most to most everything. The staffs become really important against Trinex, which is the other boss I do not like. But yeah, otherwise it's, there's, there's a lot of magic items that get used like once or twice. And I didn't just really use them that much.

I would say that'd be like one of the main weak parts of the game is that you have so many of these things that are after the fight with Aghanim and you're unlocking it as you're going through the eight palaces or however many there were. I don't even remember. This is like how often do you actually use them? Not too often. And they just kind of seem like they're there just for the sake of being there.

Right.

So it's a little bit of bloat where it doesn't need to be.

The fire rod at least could light lamps from a distance and helps with puzzles. Yeah, yeah. The ice, the ice ride, not so much. But again, you're gonna need it. You know, you hopefully have found it by now because you will need it against Trinex. Thieves Town, I thought was a fantastic dungeon with a truly unique mechanic where you're in there looking for the boss. You, you've probably already even entered the boss's room. He's not there. You know, you've, you've heard rumors from the beginning of the game about this thief boss named Blind and just keep hinting at him and you're just going through this whole dungeon. You find the Titans mitten there, which is upgraded power glove. And you finally get to the bottom and there's this, this girl down there who's just been captured. And he's like, okay, well I'm going to leave, lead her to safety. But along the way you need to break. You need to blow up the floor with a bomb to let light into the. Into the boss's room. And if you bring the girl into the light, surprise, surprise. It's actually Blind in disguise. And I thought, I thought this was a really neat quirky mechanic to kind of vary up the dungeons a bit.

And it kind of flies in the face of what happened at the beginning of the game because you think, oh, girl in dungeon, save the girl. There you go. That's the whole mission of the game, right?

Yep. A little bit of subversion of expectations there.

Just like the last Jedi.

Ice palace, you get the blue mail there. You face a cold stare.

Ice palace sucks.

I. Ice Palaces. Ice palace.

It can go kick rocks. It can suck farts. It is every equivalent of like modern day water temples. Like it's.

Oh yeah, for sure.

Heart garbage.

Yeah, for sure. The game does keep track of the number of times you die. And at the end it will tell you. Ice palace is always number one for me. Right. It's so big. It's so big. I still like it. It's. It's interesting. It's got some neat mechanics to it, but it's. Yeah, it's a heck of a dungeon.

Yeah.

Cold Stair is not that interesting of a boss except in the way it moves. I. I really like how it. Once you break it. Once you break Cold stare out of its ice and it splits into three and goes around the room. It always hovers kind of around the edges of the room, but its eyes are always at you until it can find a time to strike. That I thought was really neat, neat graphical representation of it. Even though as a boss he's kind of. He's not really doing a ton. New Misery of Mire, you find another one of those magic items, the Cane of Samaria, which is actually a really great weapon that I didn't know until I started watching Speedruns. It's so it will make a block and then when you press it again, the block explodes in four directions. And those.

Oh wow.

Those magical firings are really strong. And so placed in the right area you can get four shots in four directions that are very powerful. I did not know this until the last 10 years, so that didn't help me.

Which again, it's one of those late game items. It's just like, oh, this would have been incredibly useful back in the desert.

Come on. Right? Yeah. Vitreous is in this. This is a grouping of. Of gross eyes in a pool of water. The big eye in the middle will shoot lightning at you when the. The. But you. You clear out the little ones first. That will. Will shoot at you as well. But clear them out with some arrows and then. Then go after the big eye. I always like this boss.

I thought.

I thought it was really cool looking. Neat. Neat approach.

Yeah.

Turtle Rock is the dungeon for me that can burn that just like.

Okay.

I hate. I hate farts.

Suck rocks.

Yes. It's. You get the mirror shield in there, which is really nice. But there's so many laser eyes on the walls in this dungeon that just pop you and it's. The whole dungeon is a jerk. It's got these a lot of magic mechanics of going, you know, making yourself a little cart and going around a track on it. And then you walk right into, you know, flames because you didn't time it right. And you can't turn back. And I don't like this dungeon. I don't like Trinex.

Yeah.

Trinex is this beast with. With three necks and three heads attached to those necks. One. One is cold, one is cold, one is hot, and then the middle one. And this is where you need those canes. So you ice cane the hot one and it will freeze. And then you can hit with your sword. And then you cold. I don't know it opposite. It does it. It unfreezes. Then you. Then you. Cold. Cold Ice cane the hot head. I may have gotten that mixed up. Y'all get the point. Use icy fire. Fire against ice. It's like.

I didn't understand a word you said, but it made sense somehow.

And then once the two side heads are destroyed, then the center body will explode and the final head pops out of it like a turtle. Thus Turtle Rock. And it. And it. The movement of this. Of this guy is really cool. Like, especially for the era. It just. It moved nicely and its weak point was in the middle of its body. But it. It would hurry around the room. I thought was really good. Finally, Ganon's Tower where you fight Aghanim 2. Really good dungeon. Similar fight to Aghanim 1, but there's. But he has clones this time. And but not a hard fight at all. Still fun one. And then Ganon reveals himself in the Pyramid of Power and.

What an early 90s name. The pyramid of Power.

Right?

And he has a couple of phases. The really hard one is when the. When the one. When the. He. He knocks down all the blocks around the edge and so he can knock you off again. Like Boldorm if you have. If you get knocked off, he regains all of his hit points and. But it. When the lights go out, you have to light both lanterns and then he'll freeze momentarily and you have to shoot a silver arrow at him. And that's the hardest part of that. Just try, you know, getting the. Getting the right item in your hand at any given moment and keeping your. Keeping your magic up. But I always thought his was a cool fight, even though I fell several times, but several stages to him and he was a fun, fun challenge.

Yeah, yeah. I. I enjoyed fighting him. He was a lot of fun. I. His tower was annoying because of how stinking long it was. Felt like three dungeons in one, right?

It was. It was. The tower is very long.

And I always thought that spinning trident looked really cool, honestly.

Oh yeah. Spinning trident. Yeah. He fling that across the room at you and it was. It was neat. He was shooting like beams of fire and throwing tridents and he was not happy with you at all as a person. Just disappointed in everything about you.

I think he's a bit upset. Just a little bit.

Right?

Finally gets resurrected and there's this punk with pink hair.

He just. This kid.

At least this one didn't have two Zeldas, right?

Two Zeldas.

I think that one went over my head.

Just like the trident. I think the Zelda 2. There's two Zeldas existing.

There are.

Oh, that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the. Yeah, yeah.

We did a whole skit about it. You know.

Y'All look up the Retro Zoo super show and our original episode here. Both of those for.

But yeah, you're citing the deep magic at this point in time.

But that was the main thing that like, really I wanted to mention about the game was I. I think the boss fights are. Are super memorable. There's a ton. There's a ton in the Overworld to exploring around the different areas and you know, you can find heart pieces around to increase your. Increase your life and a lot of different stuff you can do. But I've always been just really impressed, especially like going from Mario, which I love. But boss fights are variations of themes coming to here, where there really is a unique mechanic to everyone that here you're trying to figure out.

And I think they took that and ran with it a bit when they made Link's Awakening. Because that whole final boss rush where you have the boss, like, literally morphing between the different bosses that you faced in the past, like, all the shadow bosses, and you actually had to adjust on the fly. You're like, oh, what. What was that thing weak against? Okay, I gotta figure this out real quick. Push start, push start. Hurry, hurry.

Right?

Yeah. But it was really well done in this game. And because, like, I. Because I was a little worried because you're saying, like, I'm gonna bring up all the bosses and I'm like, oh, I have. I can't remember any of the bosses. But as soon as you start talking about them, I'm like, oh, yeah, that one. Oh, yeah, that one. I remember that. I remember how that made me feel. I remember that one could suck farts. Absolutely. But they're so memorable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, even you had mentioned how you don't like Trinex, Paul. I didn't either. Especially because you need to, like, you can't screw up because your magic is limited, you know, and you need a lot of magic to take him down. So if you keep missing, like, you're just. You're done for. You can't beat him. So I found him pretty annoying. But that said, he is still very memorable, you know, like, it's a cool conceit.

Oh, yeah, It's a very memorable fight. Yeah. You know, for anybody. Anybody possibly playing it for the first time. You really do need to find the little imp thing that will do the half magic cost. And there's a funny story about that from the time, because, you know, we didn't have Internet to look these things up, is when you find the imp thing, it says it's going to curse you and that it's going to take away half of your magic. And it kind of wavers back and forth that it's going to get the spell wrong. And what it's actually doing is making your spells cost half the magic that it did before.

Hmm.

We did not know that. And. And, like, none of my friends were smart enough to go, okay, we're going to find the imp. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to figure out how many times can I cast the fire rod with regular magic? And then how many times after we talk to the imp? Because we had discussions on the. On the. You Know, at recess and in school, it's like, is he having our magic or what is he doing? Like, should we be getting this guy or no. And, and we went back and forth on it because the dialogue is vague because the imp doesn't really know what he's doing. And so, yeah, you know, before you get to try next especially. And you will also want it for Ganon, you know, find that guy. I'm not going to tell you where he is. You can figure it out. There's the Internet, people. Find that little guy and he will help you out. Yeah, nicely.

I don't think I found him this playthrough because as I'm taking a look at him, I remember him from Link's awakening.

Oh, he's there too.

Yeah, yeah, that bat looking dude.

Yeah.

Yish.

Oh, the other story that I'll tell at the time, and this is, I am not. Look, I am fat, but I'm not body positivity. You run across several fairies in the world and by the time you get to like the third one, you think you know how it's going to happen. You hear the, the harps start going. But there's one fairy who's super fat. The first time she showed up, I, as a 14 year old kid just could not stop laughing because I was not expecting that.

And there's no rhyme or reason for it either.

No, no, it is.

And it's just there and it's played completely straight and it's just like, right, okay, sure, but.

But she is one of the last fairies you find. And so, you know, I mean, it's, it's definitely intentional that, you know, they're setting up because you visit the fairy several times because you want to. The fairies will refill your empty bottles with potions. They'll upgrade your, like your boomerang. And I. Gosh, I can't remember. I think they upgrade one other thing, but they do, they do great stuff for you as well as healing you. So you definitely want to visit them several times. But finding that last, that last one just. I could not stop laughing. I was not expecting that at all. All right, so there's 5,000 other things I could say about this game, but anything you want to add before we shut it down? Because if y'all don't know about Link to the Past yet, this is when you should be playing.

I just, I did want to kind of reiterate that this game is the one that sort of is the template for all the, like, this is the definitive Zelda. I Think for me in so many ways that again, and I already sort of talked about this a little bit, but like, it's especially sort of in replaying it and listening to other stuff talk about like. And just like, even as you're going through like the different, like the monster designs and everything else, like this sets the table for every Zelda that came after it. I mean, up until Breath of the Wild, which kind of in some ways abandons the form, you know, like loads of temples really. And I guess, like, it's, It's. In some ways it is like sort of a redo on the original Legend of Zelda. Like. Sure. But it goes above and beyond. And I don't know, I think. I think this is like one of the. This is definitely to me one of those games that like, when Byron is old enough, like we're going to do a link to the past playthrough. Like.

Yeah.

And it's because, like, well, that's. If he wants to play video games, you know, like I imagine he. He will. But yeah, it's a hard pass. Hard. This is not a Fortnite House. But yeah, I think, you know, just in sort of thinking about that and. And again, it just. It does add so many sort of like quality of life things. Like the boots, you know, the. Oh, they're going it. But my brain skipped a beat.

The hook shot.

The. The hook shot, obviously, you know, and it's like even like the, The. I know I. In. Was it the. It's the power Bracelet in Link's Awakening, right?

I think so, yeah.

Appreciate it. Like, you know, the sort of like the power. The Power Glove and then the Titans mitt or whatever when you get those and like the upgrades like the. Just like the removing obstacles, like picking up rocks and you know, like things like that.

I don't know the feeling that you get when you're only able to pick up the small rocks for most of the game and then you get that Titans mitt and then you could pick up one of those big freaking boulders and just like. And it takes a second. It's like it's trying to lift it and it's like boom. Brings it right up above his head. It's just like, oh, I did that. I feel accomplished. I actually did so.

And what a great, like, what a great animation because it's. It's the. It's the right amount of effort. Yeah, you see the sweat coming off of Links forehead as he's doing it.

But there's a slight hesitancy that's just like, is it gonna happen?

Will it?

And then it does. And it's like, oh, you'll see. It's satisfying, right?

It doesn't go too long. It's not too short. You feel the effort of it, but also it moves along with it. It's really good.

I would also say there's things in this game that I forgot and that the game doesn't. The game doesn't do a lot of holding your hand now. I would say there's a lot more tutorialization. Yeah, that's the right word. I'm looking for tutorialization in this. That is pretty good. It's not like beating you over the head, but it's like, I forgot that you could use the Pegasus boots to run into because there's those piles of rocks and you could run into those and explode them. And they're like. They're hidden doorways and stuff. Like, I was like, oh. It's like, touches like that are so cool and so like, it's. It's little things like that and just, you know, it is. It is kind of unfortunate because it, like, you know, a lot of, you know, we talked briefly about the staves and how towards, like, by the time you get them, they're not really useful and just even magic and just all of that is not really. It's not really that viable. I mean, it's. Well, that's not true. Like, those magic attacks, when used properly, are better than, like, your base sword attack. But so much of the game really just like, you are just like. It's like, I'm gonna poke things, and I'm gonna poke things with my sword, and I'm gonna swing club the bad guys to get to death, per se. And it's just, I don't know. Oh, that's like the one gig that I would probably throw at it is that you don't like. The bow is pretty useful. Boomerang is pretty useful. Hook shot is pretty useful. And outside of that, you don't really need the other stuff for the most part.

For the most part. Yeah. You made the tapping reminded me just. And this is the dumbest thing ever, but they put it in and I love it is. And this happens when you're, you know, you're holding your attack and it's charging up your.

Your.

Your 360 swing, which is your. Your most powerful attack. But if you're holding it there and you go across something, he'll start tapping it with his sword.

Yeah, the poke, poke, poke.

Yeah. And just the fact that walls that you can bomb sound hollow. Oh yeah, it's such a great touch that. And normally like, normally you see cracks in the wall and that gives you an indication that this might be bombable or if it's really weak you can just run into it and break the wall down, which is hilarious as well. But yeah, if you're low on bombs and you just want to make sure you can tap it and such a, such a clever little touch that they did not need to put in, but they did.

That kind of goes back to like the fact that just masterful sound design, you know, it's like that's. And that, that is, I think that this is a game that in so many ways, like there are so many little attention to detail moments in it. And even with like the frustrations of some of like the data boss designs and everything else, like this is a game that really I think and Nintendo, I don't know, like I look back at this one and I'm like this, this is kind of where Nintendo set the bar and said like no, like we're just like this thing's going to ooze quality. And I think for the most part when it comes to their first party titles like that, that's what they do now. Like this, this was like, and it's like you said Super Mario World, it's not as polished but like this is like basically them really leaning into and sort of like pushing. I mean it had a special cart with more memory on it, you know, and stuff like that. So it's like this is like to me this is like this is like the Nintendo, this is a Nintendo high water mark. And again where it's sort of like. And, and well, and I, I think it goes back to like what we were sort of talking about. Like they could have ended this game so much earlier and it would have been fine. But like the attention to detail, like the, the moving flowers and the, the different, just the, the beautiful sprites and all of that stuff. And then like yeah, the little stuff where it's like, hey, you can poke the wall and hollow walls make a different sound than a normal wall. And like just it's that attention to detail that's like these are little things that you did not have to do. And it's like that high threshold, that high bar of quality that's, that's pretty freaking spectacular. Like, I don't know, like this, this game is definitely a must play. And I think. And so I think that kind of leads us to a Place where we do, you know, and ultimately Josh and I will probably have to wrestle with this in the coming weeks maybe, but I don't. It is. It is one of the greatest games of all time. Right. So in theory, we should probably try and make room for it on the list, on our top 100 list. But at the same time, it's kind of like, while this is a. Like a must play game, this is like a formative game. It's like, you know, I think. I guess what I'm saying, Josh, is I think when we do sort of go over the top 100 list, we've got some work cut out for us. Like, I don't know that we have too many games that we've played this year where we're like, yeah, this belongs. Totally belongs on the list that aren't already on there, but this one, it's like in sort of going through this again, I'm like, we need to maybe revisit this thing. And maybe. And again, I'm not even sure it belongs on our list because of our criteria and just the weird up and down nature of our list, but it's a fun one to think about, to wrestle with.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that'll be fun to have a conversation about. I still. I still like a link between worlds a lot as well, so that might come up in that conversation as well. I do. You know, we're talking about how great this game is, and it really is. I mean, what's. What's amazing is that this is another one of those games where back in these days, sequels did not have to be similar to the games that they were before. You think of this and the Zelda series, I think it's similar to, like Mario Brothers and Castlevania are two game series that I can think of where the first games kind of set the formula, and they were a little crude, a little rough around the edges, but they set the formula and they did a really good job for just like, you know, creating maybe not a totally new genre, but something close to it. The second games were wild experiments, and then the third games went back and without completely being remakes, they polished that original formula and expanded it out so much more. So Mario Brothers 3 to the Super Mario Brothers, I think, is a fantastic example of that. I like Castlevania 3 more than the first one, even though I think the first one is iconic. It just does so much branching paths, different characters, all kinds of crazy stuff there. And I think this one does something similar where it takes that original Zelda formula, but does everything better than that first one and expands it and brings it into new territory.

I think too. Just sort of in touching on that though too. When you look at those jumps from like the original, like Mario Brothers to Mario Brothers too. Now of course that was Doki Doki Panic and everything else, but they did integrate things like, you know what I'm saying, where they like Mario's jump and just the ability to fly and all of the extra abilities like, and to pick up a shell. Like I believe that. And again, this is sort of more of a theory versus like fact. Where it's like that that's stuff like where it's like that that's actually probably carryovers from Super Mario Brothers too. It's like, what if we took this and we put it into the next one? Like. Yeah, yeah, like.

And you see that with magic in Zelda. You know, we talked about how you don't use it that much, but I think it's directly inspired by the second game. Yeah.

And it's even like I think there are some things like you know, just the necessity of the lantern and everything else. I don't know, like, and the ability to light up. I think there were ideas that they started to tackle in. In Link's adventure that they really fleshed out like, and they really played with now. Like, yes, obviously they went back to a completely, you know, the like the top down thing. But I think too it's like it's. It's interesting to think that like in some ways now it's, it's pretty limited. But like Link to a Link to the Past is a very vertical game. Like there are, there's terrain and like, you know, I was just thinking about like the fact that like you, you can drop down now. Sometimes you drop that. Like, you know, there's the like some of the dungeons where it's like drop down in this hole and you don't know if it's like there's a goodie underneath or if there's like this is just a death hole. And sometimes there's that little like guessing game. But just like even coming out of Kakariko Village, like it kind of sits up and you can just like, like drop off a cliff and there isn't much that's again, that's more of a little touch than something else. But like even that sense of verticality, like that's, you know, there were. In link 2 there were platforms and like there, you know, when you were going up and down the levels in the caves And I'm wondering, like, how much of it was like, trying to maybe, like, add some of that back in or capture some of that same feeling where it's like. And I don't know. I don't see it's. It's a lot harder to see, like, the touch points. And I guess that's kind of a question that I would like. You guys are all way more familiar with Link's adventure than I am. You know, we've talked about that. What do you think that, like, the sort of, like, what was the stuff that maybe got brought forward from that into a link to the past?

I think one of them. And this is. I. This is the. I think the best part about Zelda 2 is the Sword play where you could get into actual duels and a link to the past. Like, your sword has an arc and it can be blocked, and you can block the guard's sword, and they don't use it as much as Zelda 2. But it's not just a simple, like Zelda 1. If you're close enough, you hit, and if you're too close, it hits you type thing. But especially with the guards who have, like, weapons and shields.

Yeah.

If you get them at a certain angle, then you're guaranteed to hit. If you. If you go at a different angle, then they. They might be able to block it. And so you do get. You do get a lot of that and you become aware of, like, of your swords arc. Even in just a basic attack. It is a. It is a swipe. It's not a jab.

Yeah, well, and that the. The positioning too. Like, I was just thinking about, like, how, like. Yeah, you need to kind of be like, in the map, you need to be like, above the knights, the castle guards, like. Yeah. Or sort of off at an angle. Yeah, that's a. That's a. And obviously, like, Josh, like, you mentioned, like, the magic coming. Coming forward, but. Yeah, I just think it's. It's a really special game and I forgot how special it was. And so for. For that reason alone, you know, and granted, I got to it a lot later than I should have, but I'm glad that you. You put this one back on. On the table, Paul. It's been a lot of times. Well, and it's funny, we talk about, like, a lot of times you go back and, like, things just don't live up to their expectations. And I think what's kind of interesting is that this playthrough, I think I'm enjoying it more than I Which is odd. You know, it's like a lot of times you go back and you're like, oh, this is fine. Like, this is. Or this is still good. But it kind of like some of the shine has worn off. And this is a game where like, yes, there are some problems.

Yeah.

But like we talked about, like, there's a little. There's. There's kind of bloat where it's like a lot of, like there's a lot of stuff in the game that just doesn't need to be there.

But yeah, I'd say also the. Some of the stuff that you have to do in the Overworld that the game doesn't. To me, it never hinted that you had to do it. So even getting some of the medallions in order to progress is a little opaque like it did, you know, and maybe that's just me. Maybe it's because I wasn't using the, you know, fortune tellers or things like that. So, no, the game doesn't do a.

Great job of like, this is definitely. That's definitely one part of the game where it does, like, it's not super clear.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, yeah, that, like, it's tough for me to say because it was such a unique atmosphere playing games in that era where we were talking about this stuff all the time.

On the Internet.

Right. Yeah, yeah. Like, my cousin had the game a little bit before I did and. But all my friends were playing this game too. And so, you know, that summer we were talking about it and then we also had Nintendo Power and eventually Nintendo, I think it was Nintendo Power released like a strategy book for it to. So you can kind of clean up all the heart pieces that you missed on it. But this was a game like. And this, this is something I like. The, the how long to beat on these old games is such crap. Like, you know, it's like, oh, you could beat this game in 20 hours. We spent way more than 20 hours on a playthrough.

Sure.

The first playthrough of this because, you know, this is just how we played games back then. Yeah. You know, we. In this game, we were. We would see a ledge and it's like, okay, how do I get there?

How do I get up there?

Right. And in the map itself. And it has some really neat physical clues a lot of times. So, like, if you see a ring of bushes, use the mirror in the middle of the ring. It's probably going to be something good. You know, it's stuff like that you can find. And so we were just. We were just digging into the world. And, you know, if you dig into the world, then you end up finding those slabs with the Hylian writing on it. And then, you know, later you get the book to translate and you're like, wait, wait, wait. I remember there was a slab, you know, over in the desert or on. On the mountain or something. Let me go back there. And this is why it took us so long to beat the stupid game. But this is the way we. Wait. This is the way we played them. It was. It was.

Yeah.

I spent so much time just exploring the overworld of this game and trying to, you know, pick out every nook and nook and cranny out of it.

It's a. And it's. I think too. It's like, even. So you mentioned, like, the mirror and sort of like sometimes, like, just. Even the use of that is kind of like clever where it's like when you transfer over the Dark World and you. Well, and again, when you get. Try to get to the Tower of Hera, like, you have to do you have to do that in order to get to the tower. But then, like, it's like, yeah, there's that, like, weird. Like you spend like 10, 15 minutes being like, how do I get up this ledge? And then when you get the mirror, you're like, oh, hey, I can pop over into the Dark World. And then. And it's like, that's. That. That's sort of like. Yeah, that's. That's. There's a lot of. There's a lot of charm in that. And it's just. It's a really sort of interesting. Not interesting, but it's a really masterful, like, reusable of our reuse of assets. Because it's like. It's not like they created a whole nother world. They just sort of gave you the same map, but they tweaked it and that. I think that's kind of brilliant. Like, there's, There's a lot of, like, it's, It's. This is in a lot of ways a very subtle game, very smart game. And it feels a lot bigger than it actually is, I think a lot of time.

My favorite use of the two worlds is you are very likely very early to run across the ghostly figure of the. Of the kid in the woods on who's sitting on the stump.

Yes.

And you're not going to find him for a long time until you're exploring the dark world. And the reason he's ghostly figure in the light World Is he's in the garden. He's in the Dark World, and he got lost and is over there, but in the Dark World. Then he'll tell you kind of why he's in the game, you know? And that's where the flute is, right? Yeah, yeah. He had dropped the flute in the Light World. And so then you come back in the Light World with a shovel and dig it up. But just a really nice use of. Of showing you something. It's like, look, there is something here. You'll find it later. You'll figure it out. But there's something going on here. This space, this place is special. I love that particular scene.

Yeah. And it's just. Yeah, the game is full of that kind of stuff. But anyways, Wesley, you've been kind of quiet over there. Any thoughts? Anything that we. We have missed that you feel needs to be addressed?

I mean, I. I was just sitting back and enjoying the show, honestly. It's like, this is, like, front row seat to, like, a live show. Come on.

But, I mean, I. I felt so bad. I see all three of y'all just, like, dozing off, and I'm like, okay, I'll keep talking then.

Yeah, I'm enjoying it. But, I mean, kind of going back to what you guys are saying. I could definitely. It's interesting having played it so much as a kid, and then, you know, recently coming back to it and having my kids sit with me as I'm playing it. And of course, I'm just kind of, like, automatically going through the game. I'm like, oh, okay. So you do this first, and then, okay, underground to the dungeon, you rescue the princess, bring it back all the way to the sanctuary. Da, da, da, da, da. And I'm like, I know the steps like the back of my hand. But then my kids are just like, what's that? What are you doing? Why don't you stop over there? Go search over that? Yeah, why don't you do that thing? It's like, why are you running this way? And I'm like, I know how this game works. It's like, well, my son's just like, well, let me try then. And I'm like, oh, okay. Well, you know how to do it. And so he takes control. He's, like 8 years old now, so could pretty easily handle it. And it was just interesting watching him and my daughter, they could just play it for hours and hours and hours if I let them. And all they're doing is like, they just want to chop the bush down to see if anything pops out.

Whoa.

That bush has a rupee. I'm going to get that. That bush has a heart.

A lot of time chopping bushes.

Exactly.

I'd find the overgrown lawn in Kakariko. I mowed that lawn so much.

Yeah, dude.

For free.

It's super satisfying. It's super satisfying.

It's just interesting how they default to this natural exploratory phase and it's like this is just for them. It's new, it's unique, it's different. I never played it well.

And that's. That's probably how like we interacted with it then. And I just. But now we kind of like come back to it revisiting. But yeah, it is. A link to the past is something special. It really is. It really, really is. So.

Well, that's like the. And I. And I have. I don't know that this story is true. I don't think it's is. But when Breath of the Wild came out, there was a story going around that they had presented it to Miyamoto and he. He started climbing trees and they're like, don't you want to explore? And he goes, no, he just climbed more trees. But like, but that, but this is what this is. It does say something about like his style that like look, if the mechanics are fun, the game is fun. If. If chopping down the bushes is fun, then the game is fun.

Yeah.

And if climb. If, if in Breath of the Wild, if climbing trees are fun, then you know you've got something here and. But yeah, we would cut down so many bushes. So many.

Dude.

Link.

Link was like, Link is probably single handedly responsible for the reason why I abhor lawn care. Yeah, but that, and well, but Josh, sort of anything that you wanted to sort of get out there before we kind of really land this plane. Like any thoughts that. Is there anything that we missed?

The only thing we didn't necessarily talk. We talked about sound effects. But music is fantastic. It's foundational in the same way as that a number of things throughout this game is foundational. But so many of the themes, the overworld theme, you know, things like that, that appear again and again and again. That. That's just classic Zelda music at this point that was brought in with this game is just fantastic. So music is definitely a highlight here. And I think. I think this playthrough too makes it make sense that. What is it? Metroid, Super Metroid was very influenced by this game because you think of the, the tool progression or weapon progression that you get opens up different areas of the Overworld, which allows you to get different things, which then allows you to progress to different areas. Like, it makes a lot of sense that. That this was kind of the reference for Super Metroid and. And things like that. So those are.

It really. Only it really is like a Metroidvania style.

I didn't want to say that because I already compared Punch out to Dark Souls, so.

But it's got that you need the tool to. You need the tool to progress to the next area or whatever. And that sort of. It's like keys without being keys kind of thing, which is. I mean. And again, it's like you said, Super Metroid referenced this game in a lot of ways in sort of like that design philosophy. So maybe you could say that we shouldn't call them Metroidvanias, that we should call them Link likes.

Oh, my goodness. And I might even be getting that confused. It might have been Symphony of the Night, the creators of Symphony of the Night, who had referenced the Legend of Zelda. I could be wrong about that. I can't remember if it was.

But that's the formula, right? That's the Vania part of Metroidvania.

Right, exactly. Which is why I'm getting them confused. I don't remember which one in particular. The creators of the games said that. Oh, no, it wasn't. You know, it's not kind of the obvious correlation. It's. It's a link to the past is where we got a lot of these concepts from.

Yeah, yeah. On the, on the score. Real. Just. Just real quick. You know, I, I love Zelda 2's music, but Cojikondo did not do that game. So this is his second Zelda score. And just how much he expands the music out in this. It. It's from. From that opening theme, the. The use of the harps and everything. It's. It, it.

It.

It has that. It has that kind of sound of. Of adventure and mystery to the whole way. I love it.

Yeah, well, that's why I posted that gif up of the opening earlier in the Discord. It's like that.

You can hear like I. You can hear that. That. That harp go, you know.

Yes.

Yeah. As well. And it's like. Yeah, I think that's. That's the thing is like, we. And we sort of did sort of references, but like, this is the benchmark for all those sounds in my. In my head. Like, yes, a lot of them come from original Legend of Zelda, but like, I hear a link to the past version.

Yep.

Like, it, like when I remember that, it's like, you know, the.

I.

The theme. The. The opening theme. Like the over. The Over. The Overworld, you know, theme. Like, that's. I hear the link, you know, link to the past version of those numbers. Even though there's like. It's sort of the same iterations. Like, it's all like. And that's like. One of the things I love about Zelda is that it is like, very iterative in that regard. Like, it's like they sort of like they have this like, musical theme and that's just where it stays. But I think that you. You basically, you called us all out because we're. We're starting to get sleep. Be. Become sleepy.

Boys. I'm trying to. Trying to open a door for you to exit.

Yeah, I think. I think that, yeah, this is probably. Probably an okay place to land this. You know, this is. How about before we sort of move into closing forums, I'm going to ask one question. I want. When you guys like, on. I think we would all agree to, like, that this is probably a. This is a must play game. I want to hear, like, what is the, like, the one. Sort of like, okay, this is a must play. Here's the one thing that. What's the one thing that people playing this for the first time, or maybe revisiting it for the first time a long time. What's the one sort of takeaway or 1. Pay attention to this. When you're playing this game, pay attention to this thing. For me, it's like. And again, I'll just sort of. It's like, pay attention to the small things. Like, this game is again, it is a sort of a master of minutia. It's like, you know, the small animations, just the attention to detail in ways that did not need to be there. And I think that's a bit of a marvel. Like, you know, that adds a sense of life. And I think that that's one of the things where it's like, the gameplay is good. Like, the gameplay is fun. You know, level design, aside from the ice palace, because, like, I said that that thing can go suck rocks and kick farts. But that was a good. But it's like there. There's just a ton of minutia in this game that actually really adds life to it. Um, and so that. That would be like, my, like, hey, yeah, I think if you haven't played this and you have the opportunity to do so do it and like, just kind of like, look at what they were doing. Sort of like, you know, pay attention to the little bits, Wes. Like what. I'm gonna put you on the spot. What's, like, the one thing. It's like, hey, if you're. When you play this again, or if you're gonna play this for the first time. But what would be your sort of like, hey, pay attention to this.

Well, whether you are revisiting the game or whether you're playing it for the first time, you will hear this little playground rumor of a room that is called the Chris Hallahan Room. Don't go for it. It's a lie. Don't waste your time. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of, and I cannot believe it's an actual real thing, but, you know, that's. But anyway. Yeah, okay. Other than that, something actually serious. We didn't even talk about the room. It's crazy how we went the entire time.

I know. That is such a moment in 91. 92, specifically 91 history. That could only be explained by. You could only understand it if you lived it. Crazy.

Seriously. I feel like the minutia of the game is probably its strongest point. Like, down to, like, the little individual pixels that help you figure out the way to go here, the way to go there. It's absolutely amazing. And all of that blended together with some of the smoothest animation, like, you've ever seen in a video game. Like, just every time Link swings a sword, it's just, like, absolute. Like, it's just clean and smooth and beautiful. It's a work of art, so it is beautiful. It's just a beautiful game. Pay attention to the art style. Pay attention to everything around you. It's. Drink it in, experience it. Don't just go from point A to point B. Enjoy it while you can.

Joshua, what's your sort of.

Well, it's sort of an amalgamation of what's already been said. And actually, that last line, Wes, that you were saying, that's kind of what it is. Just go explore. Like, don't think of this game as, like, okay, as a list of things you need to do. Like, what's the next thing on the list I need to do in order to finish the game? Like, because you can go to your map and the temples are blinking. You know they're numbered, so you know where to go. Don't just be focused on the next thing. But I would say actually go out and explore, and it's going to help you because then you'll understand the world and how it all works together. You're going to find those things that are probably necessary for some point in the game. You're going to pick up heart pieces. Like, you're always going to be rewarded. So go explore.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Yeah. Paul, that was actually going to be. What I said too, is you find stuff in the weirdest places in this game. And so if you're looking at something, you say, I could stand there. How do I get there? There's a way to get there.

Yeah.

And a lot of time it's, you know, like, pay attention to the connection between the light and the dark world. You know, there's. There's paths open in one world that aren't open in the other. And if you find yourself on a ledge, go ahead and use the mirror just to see where you're going to end up. If there's. If. If, like, if it's. If it's nothing, you can always go back. The mirror leaves a. Leaves a spot for you to just jump right back. But once you get sparkles. Yeah. Once you get Zora's flippers. Go swimming everywhere. Go. Go under the bridges, go into the waterfalls. There's probably something there. And there's. There's so much little stuff and you're going to run into countless things. It's like, okay, there's a big rock there. I'm going to need one of the mitts to get past it. Mental note, you'll come back later for it. Or the little pegs that you need the hammer to get through. You know, just to make a mental note of that. It's there and you can come back later and you'll find some just wild stuff in the. In every corner of the map.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's. I think those are. You know, that's some pretty good advice. But, Josh, I think. I think since Paul has opened the door for us to land this plane or. Yeah. To wrap this thing up, I think that we. It is only fair that we sort of oblige him. So we need to start. And we need to start wrapping it up. So I do think that we probably ought to just sort of touch base and do a bit of a challenge update.

Here comes a new challenger.

Actually, it's kind of an old challenger talking, but. And I'll just sort of like run into mine real quick. It's like I had talked about praying through the psalms. I did not do that as consistently as I wanted to. So I'm just going to. I'm going to put that back on the docket and say, like, that's something that I want to develop. I am using, basically, a plan that comes out of the Book of Common Prayer, so.

Nice.

But, yeah, nice.

So, yeah, mine was to be calorie counting, and I have not been great at that. Um, I've been decent at just what I put in my body in general, but I haven't been counting calories, so. Not doing too well there. I think for the next challenge, though, I've just been convicted lately about memorizing scripture. I haven't been doing that in quite a while, and so I need to get into a regular rhythm where I spend some time just memorizing some scripture. So that's my challenge for next time.

Good. Alrighty. Well, yeah, we need to. We need to land a plane. So, you know, Josh, what happens? What do we do next? I'm. I'm. I'm starting to cry here, man.

Well, my.

My brains are just going.

Nate's current challenge is staying away.

Yeah. As we fade off into the distance. Wes, Paul, thank you guys for coming on. Thank you, especially Paul, for recommending this game. It was fun to play through again this year because it's been quite a while since I've played it, so I enjoyed it quite a bit. Appreciate you guys. Is there. And obviously we talked about your podcasts earlier. Is there any way, I don't know, if you want people to get a hold of you or anything you want to plug before we head out for the evening?

Yes.

Just find me on Discord. I'm there.

Discord.

That's pretty much all I'm doing.

Yeah, right.

Techno funk boy. And LRT and Gates on Twitter. Y'all will hear more about LRT and Gates right after I finish this stupid album.

Nice, Nice, nice.

Cool.

And is that the same on Blue sky as well? No, I'm just kidding.

Right. All right, well, you know what they say, if you're. If your boyfriend has Blue sky count, then you have a girlfriend.

That is what they say. All right, guys, well, thank you for sticking with us. Keep beating down your backlogs, and we'll keep breaking down the benefits.